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Disgruntled Kessler?

Still hilarious to me Sip is on this thing that hte FO is frustrated with Hardy over Walker when the FO are the ones who purposefully traded for Collins to create a minutes crunch/competition for Walker.

Also, Danny's comments about playoff vs regular season doesnt really jive that he's high on Walker.
 
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Bawse Dawg said:
Feel like we have botched whatever we are doing with him. Saying he will play Summer League is completely insulting.
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How is it insulting? Walker hasnt done a damn thing in the NBA. He's actually never even played a SL game. It's an opportunity for him to build chemistry with the young core. It's completely logical and if he looks at it as a negative he's even softer mentally than we know.
 
He's just a more sensitive guy. I'm not even saying that to dog on him, he's open about it. He takes things much harder than he should, whether that be losing or poor individual play. He's the only one who mentioned how difficult the losing streak was. He's also the only one who mentioned that he was disappointed with his play. He says this openly in interviews, it's also damn obvious when he's on the court. Other guys have unshakable confidence and don't seem to care if the team is losing or they are playing poorly, Kessler is the opposite.

In order to solve whatever beef is between Kessler/Hardy, that starts with Kessler toughing up a bit.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Walker is probably a frustrating player to coach. He's useless on offense if you arent running a spread teh floor, PNR heavy offense w/ a great playmaker. He has very little confidence in himself. He has the worst body language on the team (I guess you could debate Keyonte, but Walker's body language is worse IMO because it's usually very pathetic were as Keyonte's just reads as immature).

Also there is no way Walker made an inappropriate joke that offended anyone. Walker's humor is cornball PG rated. He probably blushes when he hears the word *****.

Walker's frustration is probably the Jazz played less ball-screen offense this year and were more experimental. If you're Walker, your value is not going to be maximized on a team that isnt heavily invested in making the pieces work for a ball-screen offense. Walker has to make going that direction a clear no-brainer with his play and he hasnt. He's a backup big currently and he has to prove he isnt and he probably thought that was already the case.
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the joke thing was definitely a joke I pulled out of the air. Its not a serious consideration imo. I'm guessing some frustration boiled over and Hardy said something that pissed Walker off. Guessing he like walked out of practice or something and that is why Spence heard about it.

The body language felt like the year Gordon looked miserable out there. It was bad.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
How is it insulting? Walker hasnt done a damn thing in the NBA. He's actually never even played a SL game. It's an opportunity for him to build chemistry with the young core. It's completely logical and if he looks at it as a negative he's even softer mentally than we know.
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How many third year players who get 20+ NBA minutes a night play Summer League? Obviously he still has a ton to work on, but he was all rookie last season and puts up nice defensive metrics. If you have a lot of examples of similar players doing Summer League, then I will eat crow. But I don't think so. And I will reiterate that there was plenty of opportunity to get him playing time with the young core during the season.

Maybe Kessler is weak mentally, or sucks, or whatever. But I think this is a ****** way to try to improve on those things. At least until I see evidence that it isn't a complete outlier.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
How many third year players who get 20+ NBA minutes a night play Summer League? Obviously he still has a ton to work on, but he was all rookie last season and puts up nice defensive metrics. If you have a lot of examples of similar players doing Summer League, then I will eat crow. But I don't think so. And I will reiterate that there was plenty of opportunity to get him playing time with the young core during the season.

Maybe Kessler is weak mentally, or sucks, or whatever. But I think this is a ****** way to try to improve on those things. At least until I see evidence that it isn't a complete outlier.
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James Wiseman did it this past year. Dante did it for us once upon a time.

And like I said, Walker has never played in Summer League, so it's a unique situation. Also the Jazz have a ton of young players. I cant give you a specific example, but I do vaguely recall teams like Utah wanting all their young dudes in SL even if some of them dont really need to be there just so they are all together.


It's definitely not a great sign. You'd rather him be so good it be a laughable proposition, but it isnt. He needs it.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
How is it insulting? Walker hasnt done a damn thing in the NBA. He's actually never even played a SL game. It's an opportunity for him to build chemistry with the young core. It's completely logical and if he looks at it as a negative he's even softer mentally than we know.
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Maybe you can provide a list of other 3 year players who averaged over 20 minutes per game in their first and second years who played in summer league.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
James Wiseman did it this past year. Dante did it for us once upon a time.

And like I said, Walker has never played in Summer League, so it's a unique situation. Also the Jazz have a ton of young players. I cant give you a specific example, but I do vaguely recall teams like Utah wanting all their young dudes in SL even if some of them dont really need to be there just so they are all together.


It's definitely not a great sign. You'd rather him be so good it be a laughable proposition, but it isnt. He needs it.
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Wiseman and exum are both good tries but neither averaged over 20 minutes per game in their first two years. (neither averaged over 20 minutes per game in their 3rd years either)
Also both missed their entire 2nd seasons with knee injuries.
 
I thought Walker stunk most of the season but was willing to give him a pass because of injuries. Maybe the last four or five games opened the FO's office eyes about effort or lack of effort being given.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Still hilarious to me Sip is on this thing that hte FO is frustrated with Hardy over Walker when the FO are the ones who purposefully traded for Collins to create a minutes crunch/competition for Walker.

Also, Danny's comments about playoff vs regular season doesnt really jive that he's high on Walker.
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Well I have heard it from someone high up in the front office first hand so I'm going to take his word on it over yours. Also the reason they traded for Collins was because Danny viewed it as bargain hunting and he didn't view Olynyk as a long term piece.
 
sip said:
Well I have heard it from someone high up in the front office first hand so I'm going to take his word on it over yours. Also the reason they traded for Collins was because Danny viewed it as bargain hunting and he didn't view Olynyk as a long term piece.
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Bigmike doesn't work for the Jazz front office, sip.
 
I actually have inside information. Walker was joking about me with Hardy’s wife and that’s why there’s a rift.
 
It always surprised me that so many folks here think that Kessler did not get enough minutes. He finished the season with 23.3 and the only reason why he did not reach 24-25 minutes was because he left his last game early with injury and did not play in the last games of the season when young players were given heavy minutes.

Lets compare him with other good but not great centers in the league: Valanciunus - 23 min, Gafford - 24 min, Hartenstein - 25 min, Capela - 26 min, Poeltl - 26 min, Zubac - 26 min. Kessler is right there with them in terms of both the impact and minutes. To get 30 minutes or more as a center you should be among the very best in the league: only 8 players played that much this season. Kessler is getting exactly the minutes he deserves.

People complained that Keyonte is the golden boy and getting way more playing time than he should - and he got only 27mpg, 3 more minutes than Kessler.
 
jazznik said:
It always surprised me that so many folks here think that Kessler did not get enough minutes. He finished the season with 23.3 and the only reason why he did not reach 24-25 minutes was because he left his last game early with injury and did not play in the last games of the season when young players were given heavy minutes.

Lets compare him with other good but not great centers in the league: Valanciunus - 23 min, Gafford - 24 min, Hartenstein - 25 min, Capela - 26 min, Poeltl - 26 min, Zubac - 26 min. Kessler is right there with them in terms of both the impact and minutes. To get 30 minutes or more as a center you should be among the very best in the league: only 8 players played that much this season. Kessler is getting exactly the minutes he deserves.

People complained that Keyonte is the golden boy and getting way more playing time than he should - and he got only 27mpg, 3 more minutes than Kessler.
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People are delusional.
 
KqWIN said:
I actually have inside information. Walker was joking about me with Hardy’s wife and that’s why there’s a rift.
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It was actually a joke that Hardy's wife was looser than Hearsky's mom. And that crosses the line...
 
jazznik said:
It always surprised me that so many folks here think that Kessler did not get enough minutes. He finished the season with 23.3 and the only reason why he did not reach 24-25 minutes was because he left his last game early with injury and did not play in the last games of the season when young players were given heavy minutes.

Lets compare him with other good but not great centers in the league: Valanciunus - 23 min, Gafford - 24 min, Hartenstein - 25 min, Capela - 26 min, Poeltl - 26 min, Zubac - 26 min. Kessler is right there with them in terms of both the impact and minutes. To get 30 minutes or more as a center you should be among the very best in the league: only 8 players played that much this season. Kessler is getting exactly the minutes he deserves.

People complained that Keyonte is the golden boy and getting way more playing time than he should - and he got only 27mpg, 3 more minutes than Kessler.
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Good post, putting my pre conceived thoughts in their place.

I guess my opinion is based more on vibes or just how it feels? Maybe also just coming to terms with what was once thought of as a nice piece really just being a JAG at best.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
Good post, putting my pre conceived thoughts in their place.

I guess my opinion is based more on vibes or just how it feels? Maybe also just coming to terms with what was once thought of as a nice piece really just being a JAG at best.
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It's because a lot of dumb people on this board hyped Walker up to be on Gobert's level.
 
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