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  1. #1276
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltyDawg View Post
    Last year Montana State was probably the best FBS team. If they weren't the best, they were at least in the discussion. MUCH better than this year's Northern Colorado.

    Last year Colorado BEAT Utah. Even though they sucked, they were clearly better than this year's Colorado team. Incidentally, Colorado just set school futility records for not winning a single home game and only winning 1 game overall. Clearly, they were much worse than last season.

    In fact, the only game they won this year was at Washington State. That's how bad Washington State was this year. Clearly, they were much worse than they were last year.

    UCLA won the division last year. Not sure they were all that much better this year. They just played crappier teams this year.
    Pathetic.

  2. #1277
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltyDawg View Post
    Good for you. Next you can brag about your 13" black and white tv.
    Cut and paste.

    Pathetic.

  3. #1278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyp Rosetti View Post
    Pathetic.
    The only thing pathetic about it is that some douche bag would deny it.

  4. #1279
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltyDawg View Post
    The only thing pathetic about it is that some douche bag would deny it.
    True. UCLA at 6-8 last year was just as good as this year's squad who beat three ranked teams in Nebraska, USC and Arizona and is in the PAC-12 Championship game. And Oregon State who was 3-9 was just as good as this year's 8-3 team. That makes sense.

    Pathetic.

  5. #1280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyp Rosetti View Post
    True. UCLA at 6-8 last year was just as good as this year's squad who beat three ranked teams in Nebraska, USC and Arizona and is in the PAC-12 Championship game. And Oregon State who was 3-9 was just as good as this year's 8-3 team. That makes sense.

    Pathetic.
    I didn't say Oregon State was just as good last year. Reading comprehension issues?

    Arizona and USC aren't currently, and won't finish ranked. They beat 1 ranked team this year, Nebraska. They may have been slightly better this year, but not very much.

    In any case, Utah played them close, only losing by 7 at UCLA. So either UCLA isn't as great as you're making them out to be, or Utah isn't as bad as you're making them out to be.

    Utah clearly declined. UCLA faced an easier opponent this season than they did last season.

  6. #1281
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltyDawg View Post
    I didn't say Oregon State was just as good last year. Reading comprehension issues?

    Arizona and USC aren't currently, and won't finish ranked. They beat 1 ranked team this year, Nebraska. They may have been slightly better this year, but not very much.

    In any case, Utah played them close, only losing by 7 at UCLA. So either UCLA isn't as great as you're making them out to be, or Utah isn't as bad as you're making them out to be.

    Utah clearly declined. UCLA faced an easier opponent this season than they did last season.
    I'm done with this because you see what you want to see. Everyone else sees things one way. Salty sees it his. He is right. End of story.

    Pathetic.

  7. #1282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyp Rosetti View Post
    I'm done with this because you see what you want to see. Everyone else sees things one way. Salty sees it his. He is right. End of story.

    Pathetic.
    So wait, are you claiming Utah is actually just as good as they were last season? Or do you actually agree with me that they got worse, but want to argue anyway because you're a douche bag?

  8. #1283
    Senior Member CONAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltyDawg View Post
    I was high on Utah going into the Pac 12, yes. And they came within a sniff of winning their division last season.
    I wouldn't really hang my hat on that given that USC was on probation. But whatever.

    They got worse this season. That is why I'm not buying into the whole Pac 12 talent adjustment argument. If it was just a matter of adjusting to superior talent, Utah would have sucked last season and gotten better this season, not the other way around.
    I really don't see a huge difference between the Utes this season and the Utes last season. But whatever, if you want to discount talent and think Utah is on par with the rest of the Pac12 then whatever.
    BYU 1984 National Champs.

  9. #1284
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    Quote Originally Posted by CONAN View Post
    I wouldn't really hang my hat on that given that USC was on probation. But whatever.


    I really don't see a huge difference between the Utes this season and the Utes last season. But whatever, if you want to discount talent and think Utah is on par with the rest of the Pac12 then whatever.
    You don't see a difference between Utah last season and Utah this season?

    Well, for starters, Utah won a bowl game last season (against a BCS conference school) while not even finishing at .500 this season. The only team with a winning record that Utah beat this season was BYU.

    Utah also had arguably the best running back in the Pac 12 last season. White was decent this season, but nowhere near as good as last season. And the receivers were all way better last season. Based on this season you'd think the only decent receiver Utah had on the roster was Jake Murphy, a tight end.

    How are you judging talent when you say Utah doesn't have any?

    For example, receivers... Do you think Utah has Pac 12 caliber receivers based on this season? Probably not, right? They didn't look good this season. However, those same receivers looked good last season, and even NFL caliber before that.

    Where exactly do you think Utah has a lack of talent? I'd say they might be a little thin on the o line, and the qb was a freshman, but other than that, Utah has plenty of Pac 12 caliber players on the offense.

    No team is perfect, there is always going to be strengths and weaknesses. I don't think you can say Utah doesn't have Pac 12 talent just because they're not starting NFL players at every position.

    Even though they both sucked this year, I would not be at all surprised to see Devonte Christopher in the NFL next season, and Dres Anderson in the NFL when he leaves school. Also John White is definitely going to be in the NFL, and Jake Murphy probably will too.

    If that happens, and it's not at all far fetched, that means Utah started at least 4 NFL players on offense this year. How can you say they have no talent when they might have started 4 NFL players? (I'm only talking about offense here, we all know Utah has plenty of talent on defense)

    And there could be others, of course. Like Reggie Dunn, Luke Matthews, and even Travis Wilson.

    I remember watching that Utah/UCLA game on tv and the announcers were saying that almost every Pac 12 school recruited Travis Wilson.

    I also remember when everyone said Utah had a lack of talent against Alabama in the Sugar Bowl, and then 11 players from that Utah team went on to play in the NFL.

    Similar situation here, except the offensive and defensive coordinator positions aren't as good as they were back then. The defensive coordinator is getting better, but he's still no Gary Anderson, and the offensive coordinator was downright terrible this season. Terrible to the point that even the few bright spots we had on offense last year looked terrible this year.

  10. #1285
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltyDawg View Post
    You don't see a difference between Utah last season and Utah this season?

    Well, for starters, Utah won a bowl game last season (against a BCS conference school) while not even finishing at .500 this season. The only team with a winning record that Utah beat this season was BYU.
    This is not a valid argument even if it was accurate. (looking at records don't tell near the story) Not an accurate measure at all. But for fun let's look anyway. Last year Utah beat two teams with winnning records (sorry I'm not counting Montana deal with it). That must represent some huge gap for you but it really isn't. Going from beating 1 team over .500 to beating 2 teams over .500 really is not a big difference. And that's giving Utah an extra shot at someone in a bowl. If you just look at regular season it's identical. So really you are actually proving my point but like I said I don't consider your methods here to be valid.


    How are you judging talent when you say Utah doesn't have any?
    Where did I say this?
    BYU 1984 National Champs.

  11. #1286
    Senior Member jazzman12's Avatar
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    It's a talent issue for Utah, plain and simple. Not even worth arguing. In the 2 years since leaving the MWC, Utah has not even come close to fielding a Pac 12 worthy O-line or QB. IMO, they match up pretty good everywhere else. I'm not saying they're on a level playing field at all of the other positions, but probably close enough to compete.

    The thing is, if you can't put forward a Pac 12 O-line and QB, 5-and-7 is probably your ceiling. In fact, I think now that we've had 2 years to look at it, Utah's 9 win season last season was serious overachievement. The QBs that have taken meaningful snaps for Utah in the past 2 seasons are Wynn, Hayes, and Wilson. 1 was a walking M.A.S.H. unit who never had that great of an arm to begin with, one was a DII kid that was gritty, but had no business starting for Wyoming, let alone a Pac 12 school, and the other was a true freshman thrown into the fire. Add to that an O-line cobbled together due to injuries over the past 2 years and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why Utah has struggled.

    Utah is fixing the QB issue, but it's not an overnight process. Having Travis Wilson coming back with starts under his belt is a step in the right direction. Utah also has 2 verbals from QB's who were sought after by other Pac 12 schools and Chase Hansen out on a mission. As these guys filter into the program, we'll finally see some stability in that area.

    Recruiting capable defenders and players at the skill positions on offense doesn't seem to be the problem. Utah needs a few years of solid QB and Oline recruiting before we can even think about them being "contenders" in the Pac South. I'll be the first Ute fan to step up and admit that the transition was/is not as easy as I thought it was going to be.

  12. #1287
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    Utah has good players, they just dont have good players at the most important positions. Same at BYU. No QB and no O line make for a rough season.

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  14. #1288
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    I do think Utah should not be concerned in the talent area other than their O line ( could be more injury than talent), and especially QB.

    You have a sucky QB and it doesn't matter about the rest.

    Same goes for BYU.

    BYU has taken a few steps forward in regards to recruiting players with talent on both sides of the ball, but either through sucky recruiting or bad QB management both teams have crap for QB's on the field.

    Tough to say where a school is compared to others when the number one position is a mess and affects all of the others.


    Anywho, I thought the season was over?

    Disappointment for both teams. No real need to bash each other now.

    Good luck in the off season and recruiting for both teams. Glad BYU gets a few extra practices and meaningless game in for reps, wish they had a QB of the future they could give those reps to.
    TREYBOT

  15. #1289
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    Quote Originally Posted by CONAN View Post
    This is not a valid argument even if it was accurate. (looking at records don't tell near the story) Not an accurate measure at all. But for fun let's look anyway. Last year Utah beat two teams with winnning records (sorry I'm not counting Montana deal with it). That must represent some huge gap for you but it really isn't. Going from beating 1 team over .500 to beating 2 teams over .500 really is not a big difference. And that's giving Utah an extra shot at someone in a bowl. If you just look at regular season it's identical. So really you are actually proving my point but like I said I don't consider your methods here to be valid.



    Where did I say this?
    If Utah would have lost to Montana State it would have counted as a loss, so it should definitely count as a win after they beat them.

    Even so, if you don't even count the Montana State win, Utah still beat 4 other teams that went on to play in bowl games last season, including one if the teams in the Pac 12 championship game. This season, they only beat 1 team that is going to a bowl game (BYU). And that is playing an almost identical schedule as last season.

    Huge step backwards, no other way to describe it.

  16. #1290
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzman12 View Post
    It's a talent issue for Utah, plain and simple. Not even worth arguing. In the 2 years since leaving the MWC, Utah has not even come close to fielding a Pac 12 worthy O-line or QB. IMO, they match up pretty good everywhere else. I'm not saying they're on a level playing field at all of the other positions, but probably close enough to compete.

    The thing is, if you can't put forward a Pac 12 O-line and QB, 5-and-7 is probably your ceiling. In fact, I think now that we've had 2 years to look at it, Utah's 9 win season last season was serious overachievement. The QBs that have taken meaningful snaps for Utah in the past 2 seasons are Wynn, Hayes, and Wilson. 1 was a walking M.A.S.H. unit who never had that great of an arm to begin with, one was a DII kid that was gritty, but had no business starting for Wyoming, let alone a Pac 12 school, and the other was a true freshman thrown into the fire. Add to that an O-line cobbled together due to injuries over the past 2 years and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why Utah has struggled.

    Utah is fixing the QB issue, but it's not an overnight process. Having Travis Wilson coming back with starts under his belt is a step in the right direction. Utah also has 2 verbals from QB's who were sought after by other Pac 12 schools and Chase Hansen out on a mission. As these guys filter into the program, we'll finally see some stability in that area.

    Recruiting capable defenders and players at the skill positions on offense doesn't seem to be the problem. Utah needs a few years of solid QB and Oline recruiting before we can even think about them being "contenders" in the Pac South. I'll be the first Ute fan to step up and admit that the transition was/is not as easy as I thought it was going to be.
    I agree with almost everything you said, except for 1 thing...

    If the offensive line was as bad as you say, John White wouldn't be headed to the NFL.

    I agree the o line is a little thin. I don't think it's bad enough to justify a losing record though.

    Same thing with the qbs. Hays and Wynn sucked, but Wilson is pretty good. He may not be the best qb in the conference, but he is not bad enough to justify a losing record. Especially on a team that has one of the best running backs and defenses in the conference.

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