View Poll Results: Would you have traded Hayward, Burks, and the Golden State Pick for Harden?

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  • Yes

    16 30.77%
  • No

    36 69.23%
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  1. #1
    Senior Member JJAS's Avatar
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    Our young wings and James Harden

    So, looking at James harden and where he's at offensively and defensively, I'd put him at the 3rd best shooting guard in the NBA. I put him above Ginobili and Gordon because of his age and since he doesn't get injured like Ginobili and Gordon even though these two might be better in a one to one match-up.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...hardeja01.html
    http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball...stats/12/3/eff
    http://weareutahjazz.com/lockedonjaz...n-the-thunder/
    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--in...-28301609.html

    Here are my general rankings with their salaries. These go up for many of them substantially, so this is for just right now
    1/2. D. Wade/Kobe ($17/$28)
    3. Harden ($15)
    4. Manu Ginobili (injury prone); ($14)
    5. Eric Gordon (injury prone); ($14)

    I also think that he is in the top ten wings (SF: James ($17.5), Durant (17.5), Anthony ($19.5), Pierce ($17), Iguodala/Deng($15/$13)

    He is thus getting paid what he should or around where he should in my view. Do you think our wings have a chance of being here?

    The problem for me with our young wings is that they're relatively flawed:
    Hayward (general question about his shooting consistency, aggression, and mid-range game):
    --SG: too big to get around screens etc. for a SG, and he is relatively exposed on the defensive end with faster SG's (Gordon, Wade etc.), needs a better handle
    --SF: Despite being tall, does not have good length, he's little light, horrible rebounder, is not a "lock down" defender like Iggy etc.

    Burks (decision making, assists, defensive anticipation (passing lanes), controlled drives, mid-range, handle, shooting consistency)
    --this all pertains to SG, but he can definitely play defense on PG's as well, he's very quick (better than Beaubois, Mayo, Mathews?)

    I have serious questions about our young wings (they will be good, but top 5??)

    My question then becomes should the Jazz be looking to turn these two into a top five guy? Would you have done this trade, and should the Jazz look to do this or did they miss an opportunity?

    Would you have traded Hayward, Burks, and the Golden State Pick for Harden?

    Jazz will be paying $26 mil. next year (if Marvin opts in) for our core 4, Marvin, Evans. Had the jazz done this trade we would be paying $36 mil. next year. That would have given us:

    Williams, Harden, Williams, 4 bigs; Evans, Tinsley/Watson, Foye, Carroll

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  3. #2
    Senior Member shadler's Avatar
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    Not only no but hell no. Harden = Ak part 2

  4. #3
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    OKC laughs at that offer. Jefferson/Millsap, Hayward & GSW pick if it were legal for OKC to max and trade Harden + Aldrich.
    No Mediocrity

  5. #4
    Senior Member Chad Feldheimer's Avatar
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    Yes I would do that trade. But is it really a better deal than what OKC got?
    Life is like watching Fast and the Furious 6. It's not easy, most of the time it's just dumb and pointless, everything is fake, there is a lot of noise, but if you close your eyes and picture yourself in an open field or a quiet forest, you can maybe make it to the end without killing yourself.

  6. #5
    Senior Member JJAS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadler View Post
    Not only no but hell no. Harden = Ak part 2
    Why not? I think AK has made people gun shy on anyone that is not a top 5 player. This is not AK's contract either.

  7. #6
    Senior Member JJAS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    OKC laughs at that offer. Jefferson/Millsap, Hayward & GSW pick if it were legal for OKC to max and trade Harden + Aldrich.
    So you would do the trade?

  8. #7
    Senior Member shadler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJAS View Post
    Why not?
    I just think he is way overrated and for a max player he tends to disappear a lot. I don't see him much of an upgrade enough to tie up our salary more. Your pretty much asking him to be the star on the team and I don't view him as that player. It is going to be interesting to see how good he really is when he has his own team. I just think the rockets are going to be shooting themselves in the foot in a few years and are going to try and get rid of his salary, when he is not playing up to his money. With a small market team you can not make a mistake of overpaying a player.

  9. #8
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJAS View Post
    So you would do the trade?
    Hell yes.

    Mo, Harden (kind of)
    Harden, Foye
    Marvin
    Kanter, Sap
    Favors, Kanter
    No Mediocrity

  10. #9
    Senior Member candrew's Avatar
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    I'd offer Hayward and Millsap first.

    Don't want to trade Burks .

  11. #10
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    Seriously, do you think Harden will out produce Hayward, Burks and the GS pick? Harden is NOT a max player up to this point. Perhaps he lives up to his contract but he certainly hasn't earned a MAX contract. The problem with many fans/organizations is they think too many players deserve a MAX deal. Look at AK, Joe Johnson, Michael Redd, Marion, etc.

    All these players got overpaid because their franchises/fans overvalued them as players. I think Hayward could average 14-16pts a game if he gets consistent minutes. Besides he does other things and does not need to dominate the ball. Burks could easily average 16pts a game if given the minutes. Who knows what the GS pick will be but if it is a top 10 pick the Jazz could get another cheap piece to a championship team.

    Giving a MAX deal to a non-max player can be the death of a franchise. The only guy on OKC who deserves a MAX is Durrant. I think Westbrook was a little over paid but I would have rather given him a max deal than Harden. Harden got greedy and now he isn't going to be playing for an NBA champion any time soon.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadler View Post
    Not only no but hell no. Harden = Ak part 2
    Not only yes, but hell yes. Harden >> Burks + Hayward + ???, not AK part 2. Garsh, Harden was only a key player for a team that almost won it all last year. A guy they relied on to carry them every game for good stretches of time while the big 2 rested. He could dominate when asked to and often was. Can Burks or Hayward do that? Not that I have seen.

    In the NBA 2+2 does not equal 4. Two pretty good players do not equal one great player. The Jazz should have been going after Harden all along and given anyone on the team to get him.

  13. #12
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowhide View Post
    Seriously, do you think Harden will out produce Hayward, Burks and the GS pick? Harden is NOT a max player up to this point. Perhaps he lives up to his contract but he certainly hasn't earned a MAX contract. The problem with many fans/organizations is they think too many players deserve a MAX deal. Look at AK, Joe Johnson, Michael Redd, Marion, etc.

    All these players got overpaid because their franchises/fans overvalued them as players. I think Hayward could average 14-16pts a game if he gets consistent minutes. Besides he does other things and does not need to dominate the ball. Burks could easily average 16pts a game if given the minutes. Who knows what the GS pick will be but if it is a top 10 pick the Jazz could get another cheap piece to a championship team.

    Giving a MAX deal to a non-max player can be the death of a franchise. The only guy on OKC who deserves a MAX is Durrant. I think Westbrook was a little over paid but I would have rather given him a max deal than Harden. Harden got greedy and now he isn't going to be playing for an NBA champion any time soon.
    This!

  14. #13
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zman1527 View Post
    Not only yes, but hell yes. Harden >> Burks + Hayward + ???, not AK part 2. Garsh, Harden was only a key player for a team that almost won it all last year. A guy they relied on to carry them every game for good stretches of time while the big 2 rested. He could dominate when asked to and often was. Can Burks or Hayward do that? Not that I have seen.
    Well one reason you have not seen burks dominate or carry a team for stretches is party due to him not playing.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowhide View Post
    Seriously, do you think Harden will out produce Hayward, Burks and the GS pick? Harden is NOT a max player up to this point. Perhaps he lives up to his contract but he certainly hasn't earned a MAX contract. The problem with many fans/organizations is they think too many players deserve a MAX deal. Look at AK, Joe Johnson, Michael Redd, Marion, etc.

    All these players got overpaid because their franchises/fans overvalued them as players. I think Hayward could average 14-16pts a game if he gets consistent minutes. Besides he does other things and does not need to dominate the ball. Burks could easily average 16pts a game if given the minutes. Who knows what the GS pick will be but if it is a top 10 pick the Jazz could get another cheap piece to a championship team.

    Giving a MAX deal to a non-max player can be the death of a franchise. The only guy on OKC who deserves a MAX is Durrant. I think Westbrook was a little over paid but I would have rather given him a max deal than Harden. Harden got greedy and now he isn't going to be playing for an NBA champion any time soon.
    The question was not whether he was a Max player.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
    Well one reason you have not seen burks dominate or carry a team for stretches is party due to him not playing.
    The homers here see way too much in Burks. He has not shown it yet. I hope he gets there but I don't see him being any better than average, not a HOFer.

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