Page 28 of 41 FirstFirst ... 18262728293038 ... LastLast
Results 406 to 420 of 610

Thread: Free Alec Burks

  1. #406
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    K-TOWN
    Posts
    16,223
    Total Rep Points
    35816
    Rep Adjustment Power
    100
    Quote Originally Posted by infection View Post
    I'm not a huge Burks homer. In the draft, Leonard was my guy. That being said, apparently the Jazz deemed Burks better than Leonard. Why is the guy deemed better than Leonard buried on the bench? I'm not really an extremist. I don't think playing Burks will make us more competitive (and I don't think most people do, despite the hyperbole). On the flipside, I don't think the choice to play any of the other guys has much of an effect on games. The reality is that whether or not Burks plays will have no appreciable effect on the outcome of games or on the season as a whole. In this circumstance why do we defer to people not in long-term plans in the name of 'competitiveness' at the expense of those likely in the long-term plans in the name of 'the future' when the outcome of the here-and-now is exactly the same regardless the decision?
    Great post. I hope kenny kyle reads this.

    I was thinking about the whole earn your minutes thing today and wondered why the jazz even drafted burks.
    I mean they must have watched alot of game tape from college and probably even some high school film.
    They must have looked at his measurements at the combine.
    They must have either brought him in for workouts or seen him in other workouts.
    They must have sent scouts to at least a few of his games at colorado.

    So assuming they did all that, then when they drafted him at #12 they must have thought that he could get minutes on a team with wings like bell, CJ, and howard right? Otherwise why would you draft a guy that high?
    So to me it seems like after all the research you do when you draft a lottery pick, you should have the idea that he will get some minutes (without "earning" them) or you shouldn't draft the guy.

  2. #407
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    3,240
    Total Rep Points
    3775
    Rep Adjustment Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by infection View Post
    I'm not a huge Burks homer. In the draft, Leonard was my guy. That being said, apparently the Jazz deemed Burks better than Leonard. Why is the guy deemed better than Leonard buried on the bench? I'm not really an extremist. I don't think playing Burks will make us more competitive (and I don't think most people do, despite the hyperbole). On the flipside, I don't think the choice to play any of the other guys has much of an effect on games. The reality is that whether or not Burks plays will have no appreciable effect on the outcome of games or on the season as a whole. In this circumstance why do we defer to people not in long-term plans in the name of 'competitiveness' at the expense of those likely in the long-term plans in the name of 'the future' when the outcome of the here-and-now is exactly the same regardless the decision?
    Good post. Ty's job is to win games right now, right this very second, because if he doesn't he could very well be out of a job. Obviously with the Jazz he has a hell of a lot longer leash than other coaches but it still has to be in the back of his mind. He's not thinking "Well in 3 years Alec might be better than Foye, Marvin and Gordon so its cool to lose a few more games than we should because Alec could help us in the future." He is trying to win every single game he can, by playing who he feels will help the team the most at that particular time. He sees Alec in practice every single day, watches film on him every single day, talks to him every single day, and after all that he feels that the other players are better suited to help the Jazz win right now.

    Yeah, they drafted him at the very end of the lottery, its not like he was a top 3 pick, a franchise changer (he might be but not likely), how many #12 picks have turned out to be all stars? Last year his competition was terrible, CJ, Josh, Raja and he got 15 minutes a game as a rookie. Thats not bad, not amazing but he got to play a pretty decent amount. This year he has a few players who are ahead of him who are better right now, maybe not in a year or two but right now they are. Its tough to get him in when there is a better player that plays the same position sitting right by him on the bench.

    Also, its not like he isnt playing basketball, he still practices every day, works on his game every day, I have no doubt that he is getting better and when he plays better than the other players he will play instead of them. They drafted him because they think he can play, they didnt draft him knowing he would be able to play a lot right away, they had no way of knowing until they drafted him and saw him play against NBA talent. They are making their decision on his PT right now off of that.

    I really do want Alec to play, I like watching him play, but I'd rather have the Jazz play the best player available and right now I dont believe that is him. And neither do the Jazz.

  3. #408
    Senior Member infection's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,226
    Total Rep Points
    6500
    Rep Adjustment Power
    37
    Quote Originally Posted by kennykyle View Post
    Good post. Ty's job is to win games right now, right this very second, because if he doesn't he could very well be out of a job. Obviously with the Jazz he has a hell of a lot longer leash than other coaches but it still has to be in the back of his mind. He's not thinking "Well in 3 years Alec might be better than Foye, Marvin and Gordon so its cool to lose a few more games than we should because Alec could help us in the future." He is trying to win every single game he can, by playing who he feels will help the team the most at that particular time. He sees Alec in practice every single day, watches film on him every single day, talks to him every single day, and after all that he feels that the other players are better suited to help the Jazz win right now.

    Yeah, they drafted him at the very end of the lottery, its not like he was a top 3 pick, a franchise changer (he might be but not likely), how many #12 picks have turned out to be all stars? Last year his competition was terrible, CJ, Josh, Raja and he got 15 minutes a game as a rookie. Thats not bad, not amazing but he got to play a pretty decent amount. This year he has a few players who are ahead of him who are better right now, maybe not in a year or two but right now they are. Its tough to get him in when there is a better player that plays the same position sitting right by him on the bench.

    Also, its not like he isnt playing basketball, he still practices every day, works on his game every day, I have no doubt that he is getting better and when he plays better than the other players he will play instead of them. They drafted him because they think he can play, they didnt draft him knowing he would be able to play a lot right away, they had no way of knowing until they drafted him and saw him play against NBA talent. They are making their decision on his PT right now off of that.

    I really do want Alec to play, I like watching him play, but I'd rather have the Jazz play the best player available and right now I dont believe that is him. And neither do the Jazz.
    I'd like to address a few of your points but first I'd like to again qualify it with me not being a big "Burks needs minutes!" guy. I'm not super high on him, but do acknowledge his scoring potential and ability to get to the line is intriguing and I very well could be wrong about him. Despite this, there are some major flaws in the way the franchise is going about mixing the present and the future on a larger scale.

    With regard to other guys playing more minutes in the name of 'staying competitive' I obviously didn't do a good enough job elaborating in that. We justify playing other guys more minutes because it puts us in an opportunity to win yet we keep losing. We overestimate how much effect results from playing time decisions. If you have 18 minutes a game, how large of an impact on the outcome do you think there would be, in any direction, if it were Foye or Burks on the floor? If it actually made us less competitive, we'd still be losing. How about minutes for Favors? How big of a difference will there be if five more minutes are taken from Jefferson and given to Favors? I argue not much, which makes the justification of doing it for 'competitiveness' absolutely ridiculous, especially given that we're losing.

    The bigger question is the Foye acquisition. I'm not opposed to Foye and have nothing against him, but from both a financial and basketball standpoint it was a head-scratcher. The Jazz have a long history of maintaining the team within a narrow range on the profitability curve. It's been largely successful (financially primarily, but also basketball-wise but to a lesser extent). The fanship is saturated in both quantity and devotion such that adding more to the team won't draw much more fans nor will it increase devotion, as these are typically maintained at a near saturable rate by simply being a competitive team. [I'll interject here for the impassioned idiot who wants to rail on this paragraph that I'm stating this matter-of-factly and am not regarding it as a critique]. The Foye signing does not add a large amount to the team [again I have to qualify the statement for those who read this as me saying he's worthless]. While he's talented and has abilities to strengthen the team, due to his role his impact is negligible compared to his cost (both financially and with opportunity cost in player development).

    I'm going to go ahead and end my post prematurely here as I am typing on a phone waiting for my connecting flight to San Antonio and I've lost my train of thought.

  4. #409
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    3,240
    Total Rep Points
    3775
    Rep Adjustment Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by infection View Post
    I'd like to address a few of your points but first I'd like to again qualify it with me not being a big "Burks needs minutes!" guy. I'm not super high on him, but do acknowledge his scoring potential and ability to get to the line is intriguing and I very well could be wrong about him. Despite this, there are some major flaws in the way the franchise is going about mixing the present and the future on a larger scale.

    With regard to other guys playing more minutes in the name of 'staying competitive' I obviously didn't do a good enough job elaborating in that. We justify playing other guys more minutes because it puts us in an opportunity to win yet we keep losing. We overestimate how much effect results from playing time decisions. If you have 18 minutes a game, how large of an impact on the outcome do you think there would be, in any direction, if it were Foye or Burks on the floor? If it actually made us less competitive, we'd still be losing. How about minutes for Favors? How big of a difference will there be if five more minutes are taken from Jefferson and given to Favors? I argue not much, which makes the justification of doing it for 'competitiveness' absolutely ridiculous, especially given that we're losing.

    The bigger question is the Foye acquisition. I'm not opposed to Foye and have nothing against him, but from both a financial and basketball standpoint it was a head-scratcher. The Jazz have a long history of maintaining the team within a narrow range on the profitability curve. It's been largely successful (financially primarily, but also basketball-wise but to a lesser extent). The fanship is saturated in both quantity and devotion such that adding more to the team won't draw much more fans nor will it increase devotion, as these are typically maintained at a near saturable rate by simply being a competitive team. [I'll interject here for the impassioned idiot who wants to rail on this paragraph that I'm stating this matter-of-factly and am not regarding it as a critique]. The Foye signing does not add a large amount to the team [again I have to qualify the statement for those who read this as me saying he's worthless]. While he's talented and has abilities to strengthen the team, due to his role his impact is negligible compared to his cost (both financially and with opportunity cost in player development).

    I'm going to go ahead and end my post prematurely here as I am typing on a phone waiting for my connecting flight to San Antonio and I've lost my train of thought.
    Congratulations for typing all that on a phone, gives me a headache just thinking about that.

    I am actually more of a Burks guy than most would believe, I just don't think he has done enough to warrant this type of outrage over him not getting minutes. I want him to play, I wish he was playing, but I can understand why he isn't playing. I'll leave it at that.

  5. #410
    Senior Member mellow's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    On my way to greater things.
    Posts
    5,683
    Total Rep Points
    13484
    Rep Adjustment Power
    61
    There are 45 Sophmores who have played in an NBA game this season.

    Of those Burks ranks 33 in minutes played, 40 in points per game.

    The Turk ranks 24 in minutes played and 23 in points per game.

    Gentlemen I give you the 12th and 3rd pick of the 2011 draft.

    Go Jazz!
    X LIKE XENOPUS.

  6. #411
    Senior Member TheSilencer1313's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Tooele, Utah
    Posts
    3,101
    Total Rep Points
    1156
    Rep Adjustment Power
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by mellow View Post
    There are 45 Sophmores who have played in an NBA game this season.

    Of those Burks ranks 33 in minutes played, 40 in points per game.
    How many of those Sophs were lottery picks? This is what I would like to know.
    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered." - Thomas Jefferson

  7. #412
    Senior Member mellow's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    On my way to greater things.
    Posts
    5,683
    Total Rep Points
    13484
    Rep Adjustment Power
    61
    How about the big debate? Enes or Knight? KNight is currently averaging more Points, assists and rebounds per game than Enes.

    As for Burks, he plays fewer minutes than Fredete, Leonard, Harris, and scores fewer points than almost everyone including guys like Nolan Smith, Jeremy Pargo and Woody Harrelson.
    X LIKE XENOPUS.

  8.  

     

  9. #413
    Senior Member mellow's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    On my way to greater things.
    Posts
    5,683
    Total Rep Points
    13484
    Rep Adjustment Power
    61
    The rookie Valanciunas scores more points, gets more rebounds and has more assists than Enes.
    X LIKE XENOPUS.

  10. #414
    Senior Member JoelHodgeJr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    363
    Total Rep Points
    508
    Rep Adjustment Power
    16
    we drafted Burks before the free agency. Then we aquired Randy, Mo and Marvin. All far more proven then Burks and more pollished. Now their is a logjam in the back court. Thats why he's not getting much burn. He was a band-aid and we purchased gause pads.
    If you dont like the Jazz, then you can get the hell out.

  11. #415
    Senior Member bjunior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    916
    Total Rep Points
    1368
    Rep Adjustment Power
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by mellow View Post
    How about the big debate? Enes or Knight? KNight is currently averaging more Points, assists and rebounds per game than Enes.

    As for Burks, he plays fewer minutes than Fredete, Leonard, Harris, and scores fewer points than almost everyone including guys like Nolan Smith, Jeremy Pargo and Woody Harrelson.
    You mean Billy Hoyle? )

  12. #416
    Senior Member spycam1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Drinking your milkshake!
    Posts
    11,729
    Total Rep Points
    23330
    Rep Adjustment Power
    91
    Quote Originally Posted by JoelHodgeJr View Post
    we drafted Burks before the free agency. Then we aquired Randy, Mo and Marvin. All far more proven then Burks and more pollished. Now their is a logjam in the back court. Thats why he's not getting much burn. He was a band-aid and we purchased gause pads.
    Yeah...a whole year before that free agency...

  13. #417
    Senior Member JoelHodgeJr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    363
    Total Rep Points
    508
    Rep Adjustment Power
    16
    does that change the present situation? We drafted Burks with the intention of using him and then better options fell in our laps.
    If you dont like the Jazz, then you can get the hell out.

  14. #418
    Senior Member TheSilencer1313's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Tooele, Utah
    Posts
    3,101
    Total Rep Points
    1156
    Rep Adjustment Power
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by JoelHodgeJr View Post
    does that change the present situation? We drafted Burks with the intention of using him and then better options fell in our laps.
    Better options as of 3 point shooting only.
    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered." - Thomas Jefferson

  15. #419
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Metro East, St. Louis
    Posts
    8,142
    Total Rep Points
    7575
    Rep Adjustment Power
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by mellow View Post
    There are 45 Sophmores who have played in an NBA game this season.
    How many are there on a team roster who have not played a minute?

    How many of those 45 play for teams with better records than Utah?
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

    Any habitual action, such as eating or dressing, may be performed on the appropriate occasion, without any need of thought, and the same seems to be true of a painfully large proportion of our talk. -- Bertrand Russell

  16. #420
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    3,240
    Total Rep Points
    3775
    Rep Adjustment Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSilencer1313 View Post
    Better options as of 3 point shooting only.
    I completely disagree but ok, refer to my post on the prior page if you'd like.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •