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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    Why is it one of the best tools? Because ESPN uses it?
    well, mostly because other advanced stats aren't very advanced yet. We're in the infancy stage right now. At least publicly. I've worked for 2 NBA teams and they have a ton of stuff they measure in their "box" scores, crazy stuff, which can then be used in more complicated formulas. PER is good for coming up with 1 number to represent the info. we have recored in a box score. I like other stats as well, I wouldn't say PER is THE best. It's just a tool i use alongside other things. Just saying its not garbage bro. We all know the faults in Big Al's game. But he has strengths too, ya know? Teams have/are paying him millions every year for a reason. And PER reflects that.

  2. #152
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavenHarris View Post
    PER is good for coming up with 1 number to represent the info.
    What makes it "good"? How is it any better than points+rebounds+assists? Is that measure also "good"?

    Quote Originally Posted by HeavenHarris View Post
    We all know the faults in Big Al's game. But he has strengths too, ya know?
    What does this have to do with anything?
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

  3. #153
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    okay time to get back on topic:
    whether per +/- etc are junk or not.
    big al is junk.
    he has a terrible on court attitude.
    and does not try to play defense.
    and is a black hole
    the experiment needs to end.
    01-21-2013
    I, HeavenHarris, hereby pledge to my fellow JFC'rs that I will no longer give out neg-reps. All it does is cause negative things, like fights, drama, bitching, ill will, bad feelings, etc.
    Love, not hate, is the answer bros and moes.

    LOL Lol breaks his pledge 5 days later hahahaha

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    What makes it "good"? How is it any better than points+rebounds+assists? Is that measure also "good"?

    What does this have to do with anything?
    "good" is relative. PER is "good"er than pts+rbds+assts because it takes into account more information.
    all im saying is PER isn't junk. dunno why anyone would be stuck on saying it's "junk." No stat is perfect, including PER. Like I said, it's a tool.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchJazzer View Post
    okay time to get back on topic:
    whether per +/- etc are junk or not.
    big al is junk.
    he has a terrible on court attitude.
    and does not try to play defense.
    and is a black hole
    the experiment needs to end.


    gtfo. you wished big al would get injured. thats junk. **** you bro.
    everyone neg this man. black hole? nice racialism.

  6. #156
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavenHarris View Post
    "good" is relative. PER is "good"er than pts+rbds+assts because it takes into account more information.
    all im saying is PER isn't junk. dunno why anyone would be stuck on saying it's "junk." No stat is perfect, including PER. Like I said, it's a tool.
    In other words, PER is "good" because.
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    In other words, PER is "good" because.
    You can obviously cite Hollinger's rebuttal to WoW just as you know WoW has its detractors and limitations as well. PER, like WoW, is not a perfect metric, and the math wars will continue. But dismissing PER as "junk" is a little over the top.

  8. #158
    Senior Member TheSilencer1313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchJazzer View Post
    okay time to get back on topic:
    whether per +/- etc are junk or not.
    big al is junk.
    he has a terrible on court attitude.
    and does not try to play defense.
    and is a black hole
    the experiment needs to end.
    So apparently Andrew Bynum, and DeMarcus Cousins would also fit your mold.
    Apparently the league should give up on all three big men :-)
    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered." - Thomas Jefferson

  9. #159
    Senior Member CAKAR's Avatar
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    Big-Al isnīt so bad on the defensive half, if you are a NBA Player yourself, you didnīt want to go through a paint, which is protected by a 289 lb BIG-MAN like BIG-AL.
    Quote Originally Posted by CAKAR View Post
    Al is soft ? he is just a nice guy. Sometimes he avoids contact, just to protect other players from his strength. He is a player, who cares for other players. Trust me dude, they say BIG-AL breaks the neck of a bull, just with his pure hands.
    Why they call him BIG-AL, think of it

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSilencer1313 View Post
    So apparently Andrew Bynum, and DeMarcus Cousins would also fit your mold.
    Apparently the league should give up on all three big men :-)
    i dont care about other teams.

    i care about jazz baskettball.
    and having al as a leader is not jazz basketball
    01-21-2013
    I, HeavenHarris, hereby pledge to my fellow JFC'rs that I will no longer give out neg-reps. All it does is cause negative things, like fights, drama, bitching, ill will, bad feelings, etc.
    Love, not hate, is the answer bros and moes.

    LOL Lol breaks his pledge 5 days later hahahaha

  11. #161
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchJazzer View Post
    i dont care about other teams.

    i care about jazz baskettball.
    and having al as a leader is not jazz basketball
    Yea. Deron was pretty awesome, till he wasn't. AK was a great talent, he didn't work out. Now we have Al, and a bunch of young guys none of which with the exceptions of Burks and maybe Kanter have the demeanor/ability to become the focal point of an offense. Favors is an awesome player, but he does not create offense. Hayward is a very nice role player who will keep getting better, but will never be the focus. Burks has the swag and rim crashing, but no J. Kanter has the dedication and I like his warrior spirit, but does not have elite talent.

    I'm starting to wonder who is going to come in here and produce when Al is gone. We don't have an elite PG, and there isn't one coming up that I see. It is very unlikely that we can get Rondo, and unless you get somebody like that in here you cannot depend upon Favors for a bunch of points. He does not make it happen on offense, and probably won't ever be that guy. Al has also been tremendously durable in his time in Utah, and wants to be a part of this.

    So, without that playmaking PG what do you do with Favors? You let him dominate on D and clean up on O. Al makes the offense go. It's not Stockton & Malone but he is such a threat that he creates situations where others are open. Yea, limit his minutes to around 32. Yea, run the offense through other guys early on. Get them involved. But when the chips are down who else do you want to shoot that ball? Who are you gonna get to do it when he's gone? Al is elite right now scoring in the clutch. Throwing that away is insane. If you can get back something similar production wise (and by that I mean an elite PG) then F YES trade him.

    Otherwise you are deep 6ing the team. Of course this is what a lot of JF want, to tank it all away and nuke the team. Fine, root for losses boys. But not everybody builds like that. Memphis is doing awesome with Z-Bo, who was written off yet has found a new life in Memphis. You dudes would have blown the F out of that team 3 years ago. Now they are kicking ass. Give things a little time. There are very, very good pieces in place here AND a couple lottery picks to develop. Hate on Corbs for doing dumb ****, sure, but Favors has progressed. Hayward is pretty good. Kanter is showing flashes time to time. These young guys don't always just walk into the NBA and dominate. And NONE of them is a PG or an elite playmaker.

    If you want the team nuked, you can expect at least 2 of the young 4 to simply sign elsewhere rather than endure the spin cycle that is the lottery wagon. This is the reality many do not want to see. Those guys WILL go play elsewhere knowing the franchise doesn't want to win. So you better hope the next crop is a lot better than this one.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchJazzer View Post
    i dont care about other teams.

    i care about jazz baskettball.
    and having al as a leader is not jazz basketball
    you care about wishing injury to jazz players like BIG AL.
    *edited by moderator*
    Last edited by Bronco70; 12-07-2012 at 12:01 PM.

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  14. #163
    Senior Member Hack's Avatar
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  15. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Notes View Post
    Yea. Deron was pretty awesome, till he wasn't. AK was a great talent, he didn't work out. Now we have Al, and a bunch of young guys none of which with the exceptions of Burks and maybe Kanter have the demeanor/ability to become the focal point of an offense. Favors is an awesome player, but he does not create offense. Hayward is a very nice role player who will keep getting better, but will never be the focus. Burks has the swag and rim crashing, but no J. Kanter has the dedication and I like his warrior spirit, but does not have elite talent.

    I'm starting to wonder who is going to come in here and produce when Al is gone. We don't have an elite PG, and there isn't one coming up that I see. It is very unlikely that we can get Rondo, and unless you get somebody like that in here you cannot depend upon Favors for a bunch of points. He does not make it happen on offense, and probably won't ever be that guy. Al has also been tremendously durable in his time in Utah, and wants to be a part of this.

    So, without that playmaking PG what do you do with Favors? You let him dominate on D and clean up on O. Al makes the offense go. It's not Stockton & Malone but he is such a threat that he creates situations where others are open. Yea, limit his minutes to around 32. Yea, run the offense through other guys early on. Get them involved. But when the chips are down who else do you want to shoot that ball? Who are you gonna get to do it when he's gone? Al is elite right now scoring in the clutch. Throwing that away is insane. If you can get back something similar production wise (and by that I mean an elite PG) then F YES trade him.

    Otherwise you are deep 6ing the team. Of course this is what a lot of JF want, to tank it all away and nuke the team. Fine, root for losses boys. But not everybody builds like that. Memphis is doing awesome with Z-Bo, who was written off yet has found a new life in Memphis. You dudes would have blown the F out of that team 3 years ago. Now they are kicking ass. Give things a little time. There are very, very good pieces in place here AND a couple lottery picks to develop. Hate on Corbs for doing dumb ****, sure, but Favors has progressed. Hayward is pretty good. Kanter is showing flashes time to time. These young guys don't always just walk into the NBA and dominate. And NONE of them is a PG or an elite playmaker.

    If you want the team nuked, you can expect at least 2 of the young 4 to simply sign elsewhere rather than endure the spin cycle that is the lottery wagon. This is the reality many do not want to see. Those guys WILL go play elsewhere knowing the franchise doesn't want to win. So you better hope the next crop is a lot better than this one.
    we will be fine without big al. the DEFENSE makes up more than enough the "loss" of offense from big al.
    we wont lose offense without fat al
    01-21-2013
    I, HeavenHarris, hereby pledge to my fellow JFC'rs that I will no longer give out neg-reps. All it does is cause negative things, like fights, drama, bitching, ill will, bad feelings, etc.
    Love, not hate, is the answer bros and moes.

    LOL Lol breaks his pledge 5 days later hahahaha

  16. #165
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchJazzer View Post
    we will be fine without big al. the DEFENSE makes up more than enough the "loss" of offense from big al.
    we wont lose offense without fat al
    Remove Al Jefferson, Corbin.

    Add Defensive players, picks, Defense minded coach.

    You get: 2011 76ers. A team which was competitive but did not know what the F to do when it was time for the big boys to show up. Defense is important. But in the NBA you have to have a scorer, if not two.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

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