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  1. #16
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Harpring was even questioning the decision of playing burks at the 3

    Using a lineup of mo, foye, burks, evans, and kanter... its almost as if corbin was trying to put together a lineup that would fail..... I mean im happy that burks got to play, but give the guy a chance with a lineup that has the ability to succeed.

  2. #17
    Senior Member LazyD's Avatar
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    So you're saying there may be some validity to raja's comments about Corbin last year?

  3. #18
    Senior Member TheSilencer1313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyD View Post
    So you're saying there may be some validity to raja's comments about Corbin last year?
    I would definitely say that might be the case. In no way did he treat Raja with the kind of veteran respect that he's earned over the years.
    If/when it comes time for Mo Williams to come off the bench, do you think Corbin will handle the situation the same way?
    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered." - Thomas Jefferson

  4. #19
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    The offense is a total disaster. That's all on Ty. We'll see if he can fix it.

  5. #20
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiroMar View Post
    Franklin, I understand what you're saying. Anti-Corbin sentiment here on Jazzfanz can be ridiculous. It's not like Corbin is telling them to chuck a clown shot in the first 4 seconds of the shot clock a third of the time. It's not like he's teaching AJ to stand there while guards score one uncontested layup after another. I'm sure he's trying his best with Burks, who despite being talented, seems to think he's all alone on the court. Not everything is Corbin's fault. But your casual dismissal of even the possibility that he's making mistakes can only mean that either coaches don't matter at all, and they're paying a guy a couple of millions a year out of charitable generosity, or you're as guilty of blind generalizations as the rest of us.

    Let's look at some things that Corbin does wrong.

    - His utilization of Favors. Throughout the past season, and the first 3 games of this season, Favors is forced to post up if he wants to receive the ball. The guy gets the ball, does some hilarious rigid half twists, and jumps toward the hoop trying to dunk it. He has no post game. That is not how he plays. Sure he can develop it with time, but he doesn't have it right now. So Corbin's mentality is "you do this exact same thing Jefferson does well, or you get no play time. I don't care how well you do anything else". Last night, Favors played really well, because HE DID NOT POST. Not even once. He played his natural pick and roll slashing game, and he did it well. Sure nobody passed him the ball (he wasn't posting!), but the couple of times they did, he executed. And even when he's not passed the ball, I'd rather him establish a good rebounding position than being forced to watch his awkwardness in the post. So what happened last night? Either Favors rightly ignored Corbin's instructions, or Corbin realized he's not using Favors correctly. A year and a half into his tenure. Bravo.

    - Corbin is very slow to adapt to game situations. He has his plan, and he'll stick to it for too long. Last night (it was a generally good game), Corbin correctly switched to 2-3 zone after the Jazz struggled to deal with Memphis inside game using man-to-man. The adjustment worked well, and they forced Memphis to take outside shots. It wasn't his fault the players were slow to actually defend those outside shots they intended to create. But in numerous occasions, Corbin failed to react tactically to game situations. How many times have we had a quick guard burn us over and over, while Corbin stood there doing nothing? How many times did our inside-out game fizzle with Jefferson holding the ball for 15 seconds?

    - Related to tactical competence, we have suffered enough with Corbin's substitution patterns. He favors the vets unjustifiably. He admits that Favors defense was needed in the past 2 games, but he gives him playtime by moving Millsap to the 3. Why? Is it really that important to have AJ and Sap for 30+ minutes every night? They're not exactly Lebron James, and we can live with them getting 12 ppg instead of the current 14. Similarly, he will tend to go with whoever is oldest to close out games. Why is Foye playing late in the 4th? He's just about the LAST player you want out there. He will try to have every shot, regardless of the situation. Yes he's older, but so ****ing what? Additionally, Corbin neither takes advantage of the hot hand or favorable match ups. He will draw the same plays whether the paint is being defended by D. Howard or Boozer. He will take out players on schedule regardless of what's happening on the floor. This has improved a lot in the second half of last season, but why should such obvious improvements take so long to achieve?

    Long story short, we have a coach who doesn't know how to best utilize his own players' strengths or the opposing team's weaknesses. Corbin understands the system very well, and he has a disciplined vision of players' roles and positions on the floor. Those are perfect characteristics, for an assistant coach. But for a head coach, you need someone with guts, creativity, intelligence, and flexibility. Not just knowledge and discipline.
    You're taking a lot out of 4 short games.

    I judge Corbin by his coaching last season, which was pretty damn good. He played players who deserved minutes, sat those who didn't, and forced the incompetent whiners to rot on the bench during the playoffs.
    No Mediocrity

  6. #21
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
    The offense is a total disaster. That's all on Ty. We'll see if he can fix it.
    He's trying to run a less post-centric offense without league leading wing talent. That's a tough thing to do.

    It's going to take a while for all these new guys to mesh around any system. Let's give it 20 games to see what we're rooting for. I've thought a few times already that I've seen enough and it's time to bring in the tanks, but we're not there just yet. We'll know who's who by mid-December though.
    No Mediocrity

  7. #22
    Premium Member Vermin's Avatar
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    I just WANT LAP DANCEZ!!!!

  8. #23
    Senior Member jope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    You're taking a lot out of 4 short games.

    I judge Corbin by his coaching last season, which was pretty damn good. He played players who deserved minutes, sat those who didn't, and forced the incompetent whiners to rot on the bench during the playoffs.
    yeah! especially Josh Howard! (reg season - 23 mins, 8 fga @ 39%, 24% 3pt,; playoffs - 16 mins @ 29%fg) and CJ! (reg season - 20 mins, 8.5 fga @ 38%, 30% 3pt,)

    who by the way averaged a combined 43 minutes, while 3 of our most important assets (kanter, favors, and burks) combined for just under 50 mins...

    although i will give it to you, i was pleased to not see CJ for the playoffs.

  9. #24
    Senior Member spycam1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jope View Post
    yeah! especially Josh Howard! (reg season - 23 mins, 8 fga @ 39%, 24% 3pt,; playoffs - 16 mins @ 29%fg) and CJ! (reg season - 20 mins, 8.5 fga @ 38%, 30% 3pt,)

    who by the way averaged a combined 43 minutes, while 3 of our most important assets (kanter, favors, and burks) combined for just under 50 mins...

    although i will give it to you, i was pleased to not see CJ for the playoffs.
    You forgot to mention Braille starting.

  10. #25
    Senior Member pickledXgrandma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kennykyle View Post
    My main complaint is that the Jazz are now an outside in team, Mo and Foye are leading the team in shots. The whole point of bringing in good shooters was to make out inside out game that much more effective. Also we have 3 new key players, give them some time to get stuff figured out, it takes awhile, ask the Lakers.
    Dis.

  11. #26
    His Premiumness Siro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    You're taking a lot out of 4 short games.

    I judge Corbin by his coaching last season, which was pretty damn good. He played players who deserved minutes, sat those who didn't, and forced the incompetent whiners to rot on the bench during the playoffs.
    Most of what I said applies to last season. I only gave examples from the last few games because it is easier to remember specifics.

  12. #27
    I Love Warm Hugs Core4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
    Harpring was even questioning the decision of playing burks at the 3

    Using a lineup of mo, foye, burks, evans, and kanter... its almost as if corbin was trying to put together a lineup that would fail..... I mean im happy that burks got to play, but give the guy a chance with a lineup that has the ability to succeed.
    Lindsey has his hand in this. The SA franchise had to tank one season in order to be great. And, IINM, if Utah doesn't get the GS pick in 2013, doesn't it turn into two second-rounders? So Lindsey's master plan is to finish 6th or lower, thereby making it even more difficult for GS to end up with pick protection. Why do you think they already gave Corbin his extension? He needs to know his job security does not depend on wins. Rather, it's making sure the Jazz end up with high picks.

  13. #28
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    He's trying to run a less post-centric offense without league leading wing talent. That's a tough thing to do.

    It's going to take a while for all these new guys to mesh around any system. Let's give it 20 games to see what we're rooting for. I've thought a few times already that I've seen enough and it's time to bring in the tanks, but we're not there just yet. We'll know who's who by mid-December though.
    Ty's trying to do what Jerry did two years ago. Of course, he's trying to do it without a Deron Williams to carry the team for the first 2+ months of the season (with a tip of the hat to Paul Millsap, of course). That experiment ultimately failed when Deron got worn down, and this experiment is failing from the get go.

    If Al is on the court, you might as well run the offense through him in the low post, as he's not going to provide anything positive from any other spot or off the ball (and will likely harm the offense by not moving to spots quickly enough or setting even semi-effective screens).

    The subs Corbin has to work with don't complement each other in the least. Earl will likely be an improvement over Jamaal pushing the ball like crazy to take advantage of the energy/athleticism of Favors, Kanter, Carroll and, when he's used, Burks. In the half court, give players iso opportunities (Favors facing up, timid again Kanter in the post, Foye/Burks off the bounce) and crash the boards hard.

    I thought Corbin did a nice job last year playing to his players' strengths. I'm not convinced the offense Ty is trying to install is going to work with the current personnel.
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

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