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  1. #361
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltyDawg View Post
    Complete BS. But even if it was 100% accurate, they still work for a living.
    A lot of people will never understand this, and believe "union bosses" are synonymous with names like Pol Pot, Stalin and Mao. Idaho had 3 educational propositions all of which were bills passed but challenged by citizens. The Right spent all their money on commercials demonizing "union bosses" and very little explanation of what was actually in the bills. All 3 got trounced in a state so conservative I'm surprised we even have schools.

    The truth is unions are no different than any other lobby. They are organizations that promote the agendas of their respective memberships. Teacher's unions will promote the benefit of Teachers, Labor unions will promote construction etc. It's ridiculous to dehumanize the organization for simply performing its function. A lot of people on the left dislike the NRA too and it's equally absurd. These are simply people whose jobs are to advocate for their membership.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

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  3. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoked View Post
    No one said they didn't work. However try to fire a bad teacher in California. Also SEIU will tell you straight up on their own website that they make more then their non union counterparts. I am not against them making a better wage within reason but then they don't stay within reason. Just ask Ford and GMC.

    So yes it is accurate. Even if they are working that was never his point now was it?
    The notion that it's impossible to fire a union employee is a bunch of BS.

    Union employees get fired all the time. The only difference between firing a union employee and a non union employee is the union can appeal it and a 3rd party arbitrator then decides the fate of the employee.

    I've worked way too many union jobs to be fed this nonsense by people who obviously don't have a clue.

    Yes, union employees tend to mage mute than non union employees. So my advice is for everyone to join a union. If you think it's bad that union members make more than non members, you've been brainwashed.

    Union members aren't getting rich. They're what's left of the middle class. And they're probably would have never been a middle class as we know it if it weren't for unions. As union membership has declined over the years, the middle class has gotten smaller.

    Rather than demonizing unions fur trying to keep decent paying jobs in America, you should be criticizing large companies for outsourcing jobs and paying them less than their union counterparts.

  4. #363
    Moderator Stoked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltyDawg View Post
    The notion that it's impossible to fire a union employee is a bunch of BS.

    Union employees get fired all the time. The only difference between firing a union employee and a non union employee is the union can appeal it and a 3rd party arbitrator then decides the fate of the employee.

    I've worked way too many union jobs to be fed this nonsense by people who obviously don't have a clue.

    Yes, union employees tend to mage mute than non union employees. So my advice is for everyone to join a union. If you think it's bad that union members make more than non members, you've been brainwashed.

    Union members aren't getting rich. They're what's left of the middle class. And they're probably would have never been a middle class as we know it if it weren't for unions. As union membership has declined over the years, the middle class has gotten smaller.

    Rather than demonizing unions fur trying to keep decent paying jobs in America, you should be criticizing large companies for outsourcing jobs and paying them less than their union counterparts.
    http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may...l/me-teachers3

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1528668.html

    I am repreented by a union. I see the gross abuses of their power from within. I have seen employees that I would never hire due to extreme laziness and inability to perform the job be untouchable after 2 years. That is what your precious unions have turned into.

    If you want to turn a blind eye and lay it all at the feet of the evil coorporations than fine.

    Maybe, just maybe, there is a reason they are moving jobs over seas.

  5. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoked View Post
    http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may...l/me-teachers3

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1528668.html

    I am repreented by a union. I see the gross abuses of their power from within. I have seen employees that I would never hire due to extreme laziness and inability to perform the job be untouchable after 2 years. That is what your precious unions have turned into.

    If you want to turn a blind eye and lay it all at the feet of the evil coorporations than fine.

    Maybe, just maybe, there is a reason they are moving jobs over seas.
    So are you saying you can do whatever you want and you won't get fired?

    I understand it's more difficult to fire a union employee (as your links state). However, to say it's impossible, or that union employees can do whatever they want without the threat of getting fired, we both know that's a crock.

    In a typical union environment, if you get fired you can appeal it to a company reviewer (in your first article, this was called the review committee).

    After the company reviews the decision, either party can then appeal the company's final decision to a 3rd party arbitration. Whoever loses is typically responsible for paying the fees.

    If the company decides not to do that, then either they didn't really want to fire that person, or they didn't think whatever reason they had would hold up.

    Most union jobs have performance standards that employees are required to meet. If your job doesn't have these, it is certainly not a normal union job. If it does have these standards, then I guess it doesn't matter how lazy you think someone may or may not be, everyone is either doing the job as required or they get fired.

  6. #365
    Senior Member Zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoked View Post
    http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may...l/me-teachers3

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1528668.html

    I am repreented by a union. I see the gross abuses of their power from within. I have seen employees that I would never hire due to extreme laziness and inability to perform the job be untouchable after 2 years. That is what your precious unions have turned into.

    If you want to turn a blind eye and lay it all at the feet of the evil coorporations than fine.

    Maybe, just maybe, there is a reason they are moving jobs over seas.
    I have never worked a union job, nor have I ever worked somewhere where there weren't a few employees who didn't pull their weight and yet remained employed.
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  7. #366
    Senior Member candrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoked View Post
    Maybe, just maybe, there is a reason they are moving jobs over seas.
    Last I checked, plenty of non-union jobs get shipped overseas too.

    I've posted this in other threads; but my mother, father and brother all worked in union jobs and I can tell you all 3 of them busted their asses. My Dad worked many Sundays when we were kids, my brother worked plenty of 16-18 hours days so his company can fulfill multi million dollar contract obligations. All so we can have things like dental insurance, paid vacations and other middle class staples which are slowly disappearing along with the unions.

    I think the sterotypical lazy union guy exists in the same world as the welfare queens and the Obama-Phone people..

  8. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by candrew View Post
    I think the sterotypical lazy union guy exists in the same world as the welfare queens and the Obama-Phone people..
    Don't forget the "the polls are wrong, Romney is going to win big" people.

  9. #368
    Senior Member PearlWatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by candrew View Post
    I think the sterotypical lazy union guy exists in the same world as the welfare queens and the Obama-Phone people..
    Yeah, this world.
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