Obamacare, explained.

[Gameface]

No. I own the company so it would be kinda pointless, haha.

Filthy 1%er complaining about 99%er problems.

But still, that's what insurance is costing, so even if we plebs aren't paying that much our employers are making up the difference and that has to have a huge impact on hiring decisions.

[Beantown]

I'm 40yrs old. My policy covers my wife and currently 4 children. We are all in good health with no poor history.
My premium is $1,300/month. That sucks.

Exactly, with insurance rates so high. Especially if you are not a company employee it makes it even harder for people to go out on their own and create a business.

[PKM]

Filthy 1%er complaining about 99%er problems.

But still, that's what insurance is costing, so even if we plebs aren't paying that much our employers are making up the difference and that has to have a huge impact on hiring decisions.

Yes. It does. I would hire another 20 people, right now, if all I had was the salary. The matching funds/FICA, worker's comp, health .. it just makes employees way too expensive. I know that probably sounds harsh, but it's simply an economic reality.

[PKM]

Filthy 1%er complaining about 99%er problems.

But still, that's what insurance is costing, so even if we plebs aren't paying that much our employers are making up the difference and that has to have a huge impact on hiring decisions.

Exactly, with insurance rates so high. Especially if you are not a company employee it makes it even harder for people to go out on their own and create a business.

Yes. It does. I would hire another 20 people, right now, if all I had was the salary. The matching funds/FICA, worker's comp, health .. it just makes employees way too expensive. I know that probably sounds harsh, but it's simply an economic reality.

Anyone have a guess where this thread is trending? lol

[Stoked]

Anyone have a guess where this thread is trending? lol

I agree. If I was self employed mine would be at least double. I see what my employeer pays so that I pay less. If I am my own business that all falls on me.

[DutchJazzer]

now tell me why do people gotta pay healt insurance for people who smoke, people who eat unhealthy and people who are morbidly obese.
why should i pay for their bad habbits?
will they pay for sins? will they pay for my visits to the red light district.

mandatory health insurance is communism and a bad thing.

why the **** do i have to pay for a smokers cancer treatment.

there is a reason why my father never married a smoker. and i will not marry one. to minimize the pain of cancer and to minimize the risk of getting hospital bills.


screw communicstic socialistic health insurance.

this does not make sense.

i train reguraly, i have a healthy lifestyle, i dont smoke, i dont drink exsesivly, i eat kosher.

i visited the doctor twice in 8 years for minor ****(once was to get a deceleration of health. the other was some small thingy) with a total cost of about 80 euros.
yet i gotta pay monthly 130 euros for health insurance. so i paid almost 10.000 euros to cover the health cost of irresponsible people. **** Them!
because people live irresponsible and drive up the cost of health insurance...

in morgan freeman's voice:
this is wrong

[Beantown]

Obama has made it so that now more than ever you're attached at the hip to "the Man".

Its going from "you didn't build that"

to..

"You will NEVER build that"

[SaltyDawg]

Yes. It does. I would hire another 20 people, right now, if all I had was the salary. The matching funds/FICA, worker's comp, health .. it just makes employees way too expensive. I know that probably sounds harsh, but it's simply an economic reality.

So then you're for a single payer system? Medicare for all? Or are you just saying you don't think anyone should have insurance except for the rich?

I honestly don't understand how an employer can say they are against providing insurance for their employees, if they are also against the government providing it.

Or maybe you're saying you'd increase everyone's salary by $1300 per month, and increase it every year as health care costs increase, and just let them find their own?

[PKM]

So then you're for a single payer system? Medicare for all? Or are you just saying you don't think anyone should have insurance except for the rich?

I honestly don't understand how an employer can say they are against providing insurance for their employees, if they are also against the government providing it.

Or maybe you're saying you'd increase everyone's salary by $1300 per month, and increase it every year as health care costs increase, and just let them find their own?

You think too hard. I'm saying it's too expensive to hire people so I go with the minimum. If it wasn't so expensive, I'd hire more. It's not real hard and certainly nothing nefarious.

[SaltyDawg]

You think too hard. I'm saying it's too expensive to hire people so I go with the minimum. If it wasn't so expensive, I'd hire more. It's not real hard and certainly nothing nefarious.

So what is your suggested solution?

[NAOS]

You think too hard. I'm saying it's too expensive to hire people so I go with the minimum. If it wasn't so expensive, I'd hire more. It's not real hard and certainly nothing nefarious.

I think he asked some good questions. I'm curious about your answers....

[NAOS]

I mean, as a business man who is buying labor, if that commodity is too expensive, then I'd expect some creative thinking with respect to bringing that down to a more profitable point. In other words, "hard thinking".

[Gameface]

So what is your suggested solution?

You know, it's quite possible there aren't any good solutions here.

Health care is expensive. A single payer system doesn't change that one bit. We're constantly pushing the limits of what we can do with medicine and pushing it forward at an ever accelerating rate. Then we demand the benefits of that progress immediately. That's crazy expensive. there's no magic bullet to fix that cold hard fact. So we can hide the expense from the individual citizens through single payer, or we can force employees to offer coverage at the expense of their growth and employment levels, or we could have everyone pay for their own coverage out of their own pocket. The cost doesn't change overall. The problem is the cost, not how we pay that cost.

[PKM]

My hard thinking was directed at making my companies more efficient, so that fewer people were required to get the job done. I see multitudes of opportunities of additional profit centers, but the cost of good labor makes the pursuit of those profits much too risky. I do come up with ways around some of the labor costs, but it's certainly not easy.

I don't have any real solutions for you guys, sorry. Just because I said the cost of labor is much more expensive than the average person realizes, doesn't make it my responsibility to bring a solution to the table. And, I'm not even really complaining about those costs .. but it makes it extremely easy to see why huge corporations take parts of their businesses into foreign countries.

[PKM]

You know, it's quite possible there aren't any good solutions here.

Health care is expensive. A single payer system doesn't change that one bit. We're constantly pushing the limits of what we can do with medicine and pushing it forward at an ever accelerating rate. Then we demand the benefits of that progress immediately. That's crazy expensive. there's no magic bullet to fix that cold hard fact. So we can hide the expense from the individual citizens through single payer, or we can force employees to offer coverage at the expense of their growth and employment levels, or we could have everyone pay for their own coverage out of their own pocket. The cost doesn't change overall. The problem is the cost, not how we pay that cost.

This is pretty much what I'm saying.