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  1. #91
    Senior Member TheSilencer1313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
    Our health measures are poorer in amny ways because of our diet and excessive work hours.
    Which at the root, is caused by the Federal Reserve's extensive hold on our economy. They continue to devalue the dollar, and therefore we continue to work more and more hours to make the same amount of money that we used to make working 40 or less hours.
    This in turn creates less time and money for paying attention to our health, wellness, and overall diet.
    It's a complete snowball effect.
    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered." - Thomas Jefferson

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by bordelais7 View Post
    Agreed -- shift these costs to the employee and you're right back where you started. I believe there IS something, however, to making these costs more transparent and tangible to the end user -- people would have probably been a lot pissier a lot sooner about the cost of healthcare were it not for employers shouldering the majority of the cost burden.
    I agree there. A couple of companies I have worked for have handed out/emailed a description of the true cost of the company for that employee. It's a real eye-opener. I'm always in favor of more information going out.
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

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  3. #93
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by larryselbows View Post
    You actually don't have to pay for any more to help those that smoke, eat poorly, and don't exercise.

    As it said in the original post, Obamacare will cost $1.7 trillion to start out but the cost will be paid for by new taxes on people making more than $200k per year (a tax increase of 0.9% annually), insurers, pharmaceutical companies, and tanning salons. Then, because Obamacare puts such a premium on preventative care, it is estimated that $109 billion will be saved annually from the deficit because fewer people will be treated for serious illness. By the year 2021, Obamacare should pay for itself.

    Hope this helps!
    so....wait....investing in the health of our society is gonna have some start-up costs?

    ****, braugh, I'm out.
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  4. #94
    bordelais7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
    I think we spend somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of the world's budgeted medical research supply. Our health measures are poorer in amny ways because of our diet and excessive work hours.
    Curious if you've run across any stats to back this up. I believe it 100%, for the record, but it's just a gut feeling/observation.

    It would be a fun experiment to take all of the citizens of the US and swap them for a year or two with the citizens of, say, Norway or Switzerland. Let them go on living their lives and using the local health care. Then gather the statistics (infant mortality, life expectancy, etc.) that the WHO used in their (in)famous report and see if the rankings change at all. I fear it's difficult for the US to keep up in some of these reports simply because of demographics and culture.

    Mostly, however, I just want to see the Matterhorn.
    ^^^this

  5. #95
    Senior Member NUMBERICA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    Part of the reason this is a mess/expensive is because the single-payer option was abandoned in the gridlock (i blame both sides). The dems needed to pull some kind of political victory out of this charade, so they caved to mega-retailers and insurance giants and lived to fight another day. Nobody in their right mind would say the Act is perfect as it currently is; but nobody in their right mind would say the previous system was adequate or even functional for most people.

    Just make sure that while you're throwing stones at this, lob some at employers writ large for simply refusing to offer training, benefits, and protections... then pointing to govt and blaming it for not working.
    Dang.
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  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by larryselbows View Post
    You actually don't have to pay for any more to help those that smoke, eat poorly, and don't exercise.

    As it said in the original post, Obamacare will cost $1.7 trillion to start out but the cost will be paid for by new taxes on people making more than $200k per year (a tax increase of 0.9% annually), insurers, pharmaceutical companies, and tanning salons. Then, because Obamacare puts such a premium on preventative care, it is estimated that $109 billion will be saved annually from the deficit because fewer people will be treated for serious illness. By the year 2021, Obamacare should pay for itself.

    Hope this helps!
    i was talking more in general/mysituation.

    here in the netherlands healthcare has been up for a gazillion years.
    healthcare insurance is mandatory.
    with absurdd prices.(130 euros a month)
    and will likely go up next year.
    I have a problem with this mandatory thing.
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    LOL Lol breaks his pledge 5 days later hahahaha

  7. #97
    bordelais7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
    I agree there. A couple of companies I have worked for have handed out/emailed a description of the true cost of the company for that employee. It's a real eye-opener. I'm always in favor of more information going out.
    It was just on my mind as today happened to be open enrollment for my company. I'm a big fan of the low premium/high deductible HSA plans and opted for the $8500 family deductible/$11,000 max out of pocket/$0 monthly premium plan. Company picks up $893/month. I think the company pays on average around $1150 per month per employee (in addition to contributions to employee HSA accounts).

    So I go to the doctor usually once per year for a checkup (covered) as does the rest of the family. A couple trips to the ER for broken bones and mystery illnesses and we do ok. Most of my co-workers opt for the low-dedcutible, higher premium plans so that they can go to the doctor every time they get a runny nose. And that's not really an exaggeration. I'm sure that helps keep health care costs down.
    ^^^this

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by bordelais7 View Post
    Curious if you've run across any stats to back this up. I believe it 100%, for the record, but it's just a gut feeling/observation.
    I did not, but our gut feelings were only off a little.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...pment_spending

    Adding up the numbers on that page, it's 31.37%.
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

    Any habitual action, such as eating or dressing, may be performed on the appropriate occasion, without any need of thought, and the same seems to be true of a painfully large proportion of our talk. -- Bertrand Russell

  9. #99
    In pursuit of #9 PKM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
    I agree there. A couple of companies I have worked for have handed out/emailed a description of the true cost of the company for that employee. It's a real eye-opener. I'm always in favor of more information going out.
    I agree with this. Not enough companies do this.
    #dumptruckin

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by bordelais7 View Post
    Most of my co-workers opt for the low-dedcutible, higher premium plans so that they can go to the doctor every time they get a runny nose. And that's not really an exaggeration. I'm sure that helps keep health care costs down.
    It's not quite that cut-and-dried. Catching a runny nose early can prevent serious consequences in that (under 1%) of the time that worse things happen. One of the biggest drains on our medical system is preventable conditions only being treated in the emergency room, after they have become serious.
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

    Any habitual action, such as eating or dressing, may be performed on the appropriate occasion, without any need of thought, and the same seems to be true of a painfully large proportion of our talk. -- Bertrand Russell

  11. #101
    bordelais7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
    It's not quite that cut-and-dried. Catching a runny nose early can prevent serious consequences in that (under 1%) of the time that worse things happen. One of the biggest drains on our medical system is preventable conditions only being treated in the emergency room, after they have become serious.
    I understand the point, but have doubts that the emergency room treatments are a bigger drain than the excess doc visits. Better safe than sorry, I suppose, but really common sense should rule the day. Most docs are just going to send you home anyhow and have you call back when some real condition exists (fever over 104, difficulty breathing, death, erection over 4 hours, etc.).

    I guess the point is -- for better or for worse -- I assume that Americans are much more accustomed to visiting the doctor more often, getting x-rays and tests more often, etc. than some of our first-world counterparts. We can't bring costs down to French levels unless we behave like the French (which would put the American deodorant industry under stress -- perhaps a separate topic).
    ^^^this

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchJazzer View Post
    i was talking more in general/mysituation.

    here in the netherlands healthcare has been up for a gazillion years.
    healthcare insurance is mandatory.
    with absurdd prices.(130 euros a month)
    and will likely go up next year.
    I have a problem with this mandatory thing.
    Oh I see and I totally agree with you. There are a couple things that really do not like about Obamacare. For one, the Catholic Church administers 1/5th of all medical care in the United States and they have a very strong position against abortion. Under Obamacare, they will be forced to administer contraception, sterilization, and abortifacients to its patients and employees. This is a violation of the first amendment and a waiver must be implemented for religious institutions in these types of situations.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by larryselbows View Post
    Under Obamacare, they will be forced to administer contraception, sterilization, and abortifacients to its patients and employees. This is a violation of the first amendment and a waiver must be implemented for religious institutions in these types of situations.
    So, if I go to a Catholic hospital, I have to receive substandard care because of their beliefs? If your doctor is a JW, should he be free to refuse to prescribe a blood transfusion for you?
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

    Any habitual action, such as eating or dressing, may be performed on the appropriate occasion, without any need of thought, and the same seems to be true of a painfully large proportion of our talk. -- Bertrand Russell

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  15. #104
    Senior Member PearlWatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    I'm pretty confident that I'm being clear. Debating the true costs of production is important to both human health and environmental health. If you don't think so, then....
    For some odd reason I don't think clarity is the problem gameface is having with taking you seriously.
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    Pearl is right

  16. #105
    Senior Member Scat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
    So, if I go to a Catholic hospital, I have to receive substandard care because of their beliefs? If your doctor is a JW, should he be free to refuse to prescribe a blood transfusion for you?
    Are you concerned that your birth control will run out soon?

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