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  1. #136
    Senior Member The Thriller's Avatar
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    Boy.

    Sounds like Obamacare really sucks.

    We should go back to the old system. It was cheap, working a lot better, and included everyone, right?
    Corbin sucks.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
    Gosh, no. For that matter, I think Christian Scientists and Jehovah's Witnesses should be allowed to become doctors. I also think that when you agree to become a doctor, you agree to follow the best practices of the profession, to the best of your ability. If my doctor is a Christian Scientist, I expect they will still arrange any medically indicated surgeries. If my doctor is a Jehovah's Witness, I expect they will still order any medically indicated blood transfusions or products. If my doctor is a Catholic, I expect they will still perform abortions according to the standards of the profession (for example, in ectopic pregnancies).
    You see, your perspective comes completely from a utilitarian point of view. Do we live in a country in which you are free to follow your own religious doctrine? That is the only question there is in this situation. I fully understand your perspective and actually am sympathetic to it. I think it comes down to this, do you value a Utilitarian approach to healthcare or do you value personal religious freedoms? In this situation there is no in-between, rather a choice of either option and obviously there are going to those of us that disagree with one another on it. All I'm saying is that it's a violation of the first amendment - pure and simple.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_first_amendment

  3. #138
    Moderator Revolution 9's Avatar
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    I want us to have European heath care. Most jobs are required to have it, and everyone is covered if they don't have it.
    We need to build liveable wages, and incomes. Jobs that require health care provide workers who need less government assistance.
    If you are going to work for someone, and are working the most hours they will give you health care should be provided.
    "Hayward can be a #1?"......"Maybe if he goes down to Fort Wayne...DLeague" -ESPN

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  5. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution 9 View Post
    I want us to have European heath care. Most jobs are required to have it, and everyone is covered if they don't have it.
    We need to build liveable wages, and incomes. Jobs that require health care provide workers who need less government assistance.
    If you are going to work for someone, and are working the most hours they will give you health care should be provided.
    I live in europe and i'd rather not have mandatory healthcare
    01-21-2013
    I, HeavenHarris, hereby pledge to my fellow JFC'rs that I will no longer give out neg-reps. All it does is cause negative things, like fights, drama, bitching, ill will, bad feelings, etc.
    Love, not hate, is the answer bros and moes.

    LOL Lol breaks his pledge 5 days later hahahaha

  6. #140
    Senior Member Scat's Avatar
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    Darden Restaurants (Red Lobster, Olive Garden) has already said that they will take steps to reduce employee overhead to avoid Obamacare penalties. Now White Castle, Papa John's and Applebee's are taking similar steps.

  7. #141
    In pursuit of #9 PKM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scat View Post
    Darden Restaurants (Red Lobster, Olive Garden) has already said that they will take steps to reduce employee overhead to avoid Obamacare penalties. Now White Castle, Papa John's and Applebee's are taking similar steps.
    We'll see a lot of it. This is not an issue of spite, it's economics.
    E.J. Wells vs. NAOS

    The confusion...

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  8. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM View Post
    We'll see a lot of it. This is not an issue of spite, it's economics.
    How does it affect businesses and their hiring practices? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, it's an honest question - I'm trying to understand why some businesses are laying people off.

  9. #143
    Senior Member Scat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by larryselbows View Post
    How does it affect businesses and their hiring practices? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, it's an honest question - I'm trying to understand why some businesses are laying people off.
    I know in the case of Darden, they currently offer all of their employees mini plans. That is, they offer insurance that covers minor issues. Doctors visits, flu shots, prescriptions... most of the day to day stuff that a majority of people deal with on a regular basis. Under Obamacare, these mini plans do not count, and as such, Darden is now faced with giving all of their employees full coverage which will be hundreds of millions of dollars to insure all of their employees. The way around this is to make all of your employees part time. Darden is going to drop all of their employees to part time status and limit them to 28 hours a week. So now, not only do the employees lose their basic insurance, they lose money due to reduced hours.

    McDonald's has a very similar plan and is trying gain exempt status from Obamacare.

    Another option that I am hearing about is an employer will hire you on as an independent contractor. As such, you do not work for the company, they are just paying you to do a specific job as a contractor. This absolves them of all benefits and it is up to the contractor to take care of themselves including health care and all taxes.

    Businesses will find a way around such an onerous tax as Obamacare and in many cases to the detriment of the very people that Obama thought he was helping. Businesses are in business to make money, not to provide employees with health insurance.

  10. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scat View Post
    I know in the case of Darden, they currently offer all of their employees mini plans. That is, they offer insurance that covers minor issues. Doctors visits, flu shots, prescriptions... most of the day to day stuff that a majority of people deal with on a regular basis. Under Obamacare, these mini plans do not count, and as such, Darden is now faced with giving all of their employees full coverage which will be hundreds of millions of dollars to insure all of their employees. The way around this is to make all of your employees part time. Darden is going to drop all of their employees to part time status and limit them to 28 hours a week. So now, not only do the employees lose their basic insurance, they lose money due to reduced hours.
    This isn't completely true, only companies that have greater than 50 full time employees must give full coverage to each of their full-time employees - it doesn't apply to all businesses, particularly small businesses. The PPACA is unconcerned with the part-time or full-time status of workers when deciding if a company must give affordable health insurance options to their full-time employees. Rather, it counts the total amount of hours that a company must complete to continue operations. If these hours are equal to or more than the amount of work that would require 50 full-time workers to complete, then the healthcare requirement kicks in for full-time employees, regardless of if a company has 50 full time employees or 100 part-time employees doing the same amount of work. (Citation: http://housedocs.house.gov/energycom...n.pdf#page=174)

    Quote Originally Posted by Scat View Post
    McDonald's has a very similar plan and is trying gain exempt status from Obamacare.

    Another option that I am hearing about is an employer will hire you on as an independent contractor. As such, you do not work for the company, they are just paying you to do a specific job as a contractor. This absolves them of all benefits and it is up to the contractor to take care of themselves including health care and all taxes.

    Businesses will find a way around such an onerous tax as Obamacare and in many cases to the detriment of the very people that Obama thought he was helping. Businesses are in business to make money, not to provide employees with health insurance.
    You may be right on this and it sounds sensible to me from a business standpoint.

    Edit: I realize that I should have been more sympathetic to those that work for large companies and may be affected by the healthcare plan and that you make a good point, Scat, in those instances.
    Last edited by larryselbows; 11-10-2012 at 11:32 PM.

  11. #145
    Senior Member jazzrule's Avatar
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    Retired out of states

    I live in the Philippines and am retired, so how does this new law effect me? Can I sign up and come to the states if I get a serious health issue, or am I exempt from the program?

  12. #146
    Moderator Revolution 9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchJazzer View Post
    I live in europe and i'd rather not have mandatory healthcare
    You are one of the few Euros I've met here that would rather have our old system than your current one.
    "Hayward can be a #1?"......"Maybe if he goes down to Fort Wayne...DLeague" -ESPN

  13. #147
    Senior Member TheSilencer1313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution 9 View Post
    You are one of the few Euros I've met here that would rather have our old system than your current one.
    Sounds like a smart guy.
    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered." - Thomas Jefferson

  14. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution 9 View Post
    You are one of the few Euros I've met here that would rather have our old system than your current one.
    cus i'm not european.
    i'm throwing money in a bottomless pit
    and irresponsible drinkers smoekrs and obese fat ****s go to hosptial and i pay for their care.
    and every godd dammed year the increase the amount i got to pay.

    in univrsity i had this dorm made who drank his liver to **** he got hospitalized 7 times, and I have to pay for that crap.

    while someone who decide to live healthy and lost a lot of weight. now has skin hanging and insurance wont pay for a skin tuck.

    so you smoke drink eat a lot of **** if you get cancer diabetes liver condition hospital pays.
    but you deice to live healthy and need a skin tuck they say screw you.

    i live healthy gave 10.000 euros and get no reward for being in excelent phsyicial condition
    01-21-2013
    I, HeavenHarris, hereby pledge to my fellow JFC'rs that I will no longer give out neg-reps. All it does is cause negative things, like fights, drama, bitching, ill will, bad feelings, etc.
    Love, not hate, is the answer bros and moes.

    LOL Lol breaks his pledge 5 days later hahahaha

  15. #149
    Moderator Revolution 9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchJazzer View Post
    cus i'm not european.
    i'm throwing money in a bottomless pit
    and irresponsible drinkers smoekrs and obese fat ****s go to hosptial and i pay for their care.
    and every godd dammed year the increase the amount i got to pay.

    in univrsity i had this dorm made who drank his liver to **** he got hospitalized 7 times, and I have to pay for that crap.

    while someone who decide to live healthy and lost a lot of weight. now has skin hanging and insurance wont pay for a skin tuck.

    so you smoke drink eat a lot of **** if you get cancer diabetes liver condition hospital pays.
    but you deice to live healthy and need a skin tuck they say screw you.

    i live healthy gave 10.000 euros and get no reward for being in excelent phsyicial condition
    Who pays for the people that show up to the ER with no insurance?
    "Hayward can be a #1?"......"Maybe if he goes down to Fort Wayne...DLeague" -ESPN

  16. #150
    Moderator Stoked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution 9 View Post
    Who pays for the people that show up to the ER with no insurance?
    The same ones paying for Medicaid.

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