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  1. #46
    Senior Member NUMBERICA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infection View Post
    The way I remember it is he agreed to a deal with Chicago then after they were kind enough to do a trade.
    You can't sign a contract then do a trade. The trade is part of the contract, otherwise, newly signed free agents cannot be traded until December 15th of their first year (IIRC).
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  2. #47
    Senior Member NUMBERICA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM View Post
    I would rather have had the young guys gotten more minutes last year and us having added Barnes (or whomever) to the team. I can say that, since it's not hindsight .. but rather recalling the foresight.
    Well put.
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  3. #48
    Senior Member orangello's Avatar
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    There is hope in this whole situation. Last season the Jazz traded Memo. I really thought they would have held onto him for one last season. This leads me to believe that the Jazz can make a trade and they will make one if the feel it is necessary.

    That is where the hope ends though. The time to trade someone started during preseason. Let's just hope that there is a team that needs to contend now that needs a big man of Jefferson's ability.
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    So I was very mad about the game, but I wasn't going to vent here, because you guys all feel the same way. However, Ty's postgame interview got my blood boiling. On why he let Trey and Gordon play while having bad games, "You gotta let them battle through it because that's what you gotta do." Really are you kidding me. You have to balls to say that when you pulled Alec after 16 minutes against LAC and Kanter got 19 minutes toinght?

  4. #49
    Senior Member underKANTER's Avatar
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    1. Jefferson is fat and lazy. Does not have a motor. Doesn't have a killer instinct. Just doesn't care. I don't think that he is all about winning. Doesn't play defense. Is turnover prone. A Black Hole. Can't get to the free throw line. Hurts this team. Trade him for young players or picks. Can't play the pick n' roll. I'm sick of seeing him going one on one all the time. Is a good guy with good personality but I don't like his game.

    2. Millsap is an undersized power forward with average athleticizm at best. Accept it. Get's often outplayed on the defensive end by bigger, quicker and more athletic players. He is a decent player but better suited to come off the bench. He will demand too much money and is obviously not ready to be a sixth man. So keep him this year and let him walk next year or trade him and get some picks or players in return before it’s too late.

    3. Favors is a stud. Kid blocks shots and plays defense like only a few big men in this league. Good motor! This alone should earn him 30 minutes per game as a starter despite his offensive flaws. It’s difficult to be good if you have to prove yourself during short playing stretches. That’s a lot of pressure. Needs more consistent minutes.

    4. Kanter is a stud. The best player in the preseason. Had a rough start at the beginning of the season but is figuring things out. Incredible motor. Will only get better. Should get 25 minutes per game and could start, imo. Has lost some confidence due to the pressure. It’s difficult if you have to prove yourself withing 3-4 minutes of playing stretches. Needs more consistent minutes like Favors.

    5. Hayward is the other guy I'm happy with. Deserves a starting role at the two position. No doubt about it.

    6. Ma Williams is just terrible. A guy with his size and athleticizm should play more aggressive and attack the basket more. Is really one dimensional: just taking outside shots. Doesn't deserve to start at all. An other big disappointment so far. When he can't hit his shots, he is useless. Plays decent defense.

    8. Foye is a chucker but still can help this team if scoring is needed. Burks is a chucker as well and forces things. But i still think Burks will become a good player but needs more playing time. I like his game. At least he is attacking the basket and goes to the free throw line. Plays in a hurry due to short playing time. Was also a reason for his strugglings. Our young kids play under pressure and is difficult to bring something to the table with this short playing periods. You can't find a rythm! They only can get into rythm with more consistent game time night in, night out!

    7. Mo Williams can be a big spark for this team. But better comming off the bench as a sixth man as a scoring spark. Is a little bit inconsistent and really undersized. Not a good passer, neither does he have the best court vision. We need more of a pass-first point guard. A pure point guard coming via trade or more likely through the draft via trade, too. Plays a bit out of control sometimes an can't control the tempo.

    8. We are not a playoff team with this coach and with this starting lineup and how the minutes are distributed. Accept it! Look for the future and get our young guys going. It’s the better result in a longer period of time.

    9. Fire Corbin and get rid of Al Jefferson. We need a young pure point guard that can start and an other big man coming off the bench behind Kanter and Favors.

    10. My starting lineup for this year:

    C-Favors (30-35 minutes per game)- Kanter
    PF-Kanter (25-30 minutes per game)- Ma Williams- Millsap- Evans
    SF-Millsap (25-30 minutes per game)- Ma Williams (20-25 minutes per game)
    SG-Hayward (25-30 minutes per game)- Burks (15-20 minutes per game)
    PG-Mo Williams (25-30 minutes per game) – Foye (15-20 minutes per game)

    We should resign Mo Williams and let him come off the bench to be a scoring spark with the second unit. Let a young point guard (coming via trade of Jefferson and or Millsap, as a draft pick or current player) to take over his starting role. Resign Ma Williams for 5-6 Millions per year for over three seasons and Mo Williams for 5 millions per year over two years.

    11. Since we won't make the playoffs this year, we have nothing to lose. We should use this year to develop our young core and give them more consistent minutes. The combination of Jefferson and Corbin won't get it done. Ma Will and Mo Will are better suited to come off the bench after this year if we decide to keep them both.

  5. #50
    Senior Member infection's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUMBERICA View Post
    You can't sign a contract then do a trade. The trade is part of the contract, otherwise, newly signed free agents cannot be traded until December 15th of their first year (IIRC).
    I don't know what you're getting at but I'm talking about a sign and trade.

  6. #51
    Senior Member pickledXgrandma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUMBERICA View Post
    You can't sign a contract then do a trade. The trade is part of the contract, otherwise, newly signed free agents cannot be traded until December 15th of their first year (IIRC).
    You seriously don't remember all the interviews he was doing with Miami and Chicago radio stations?

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  8. #52
    Senior Member NUMBERICA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pickledXgrandma View Post
    You seriously don't remember all the interviews he was doing with Miami and Chicago radio stations?
    Pure conjecture. I don't recall him saying "Yeah, I want to get out of here."
    Quote Originally Posted by Eenie-Meenie View Post
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  9. #53
    Senior Member NUMBERICA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infection View Post
    I don't know what you're getting at but I'm talking about a sign and trade.
    Yes. The trade is part of the contract in a sign-and-trade. Otherwise, newly signed free agents cannot be traded until after December 15th of their first year (IIRC).
    Quote Originally Posted by Eenie-Meenie View Post
    I've never stalked anyone in my life, including any of my girl friends.

  10. #54
    Super Clutch Gameface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pickledXgrandma View Post
    You seriously don't remember all the interviews he was doing with Miami and Chicago radio stations?
    The Jazz FO straight up told him he wasn't part of their future plans IIRC.

  11. #55
    Senior Member CitizenofCapua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpjazz View Post
    I know it is only a few games in, BUT it is obvious to me that the time is NOW to dump both Al and Sap for whatever we can get for them. Move forward with the new guys, get them minutes and see what it brings us. We KNOW what we are going to get with Sap and Al. We are going to get what we have right now, a losing record. We can get a losing record with Kanter and Favors starting and I have no doubt within a few weeks, if that long, with starters minutes we will see huge steps in both of them. This is stupid for Ty to keep using the same formula that is proven to not work. On that note, while I wanted to give him time as a coach, Ty doesnt seem to show some of the basics of good coachng. Things that you should be able to do when you start. You dont have to learn over time that a lineup isnt working, or that one player is ALWAYS going to give you the same results. It should be obvious. He seems to have Sloan type attitudes with out Sloan type results even. No excuses, IMO, Ty needs to go...soon. Seems harsh, and Im usually a company man, but the guy shows me NOTHING at all that makes me believe he will ever get better...I do like the pickups of the Williams' and Foye, that is about it so far this year that makes me upbeat.

  12. #56
    Senior Member bjunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by underKANTER View Post
    6. Ma Williams is just terrible. A guy with his size and athleticizm should play more aggressive and attack the basket more. Is really one dimensional: just taking outside shots. Doesn't deserve to start at all. An other big disappointment so far. When he can't hit his shots, he is useless. Plays decent defense.

    11. Since we won't make the playoffs this year, we have nothing to lose. We should use this year to develop our young core and give them more consistent minutes. The combination of Jefferson and Corbin won't get it done. Ma Will and Mo Will are better suited to come off the bench after this year if we decide to keep them both.
    well, pretty good speech

    6. he's not terrible, i think marvin will be fine if this team turn things around

    11. we should have done this last year already.. at least more of that

  13. #57
    Senior Member orangello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM View Post
    I would rather have had the young guys gotten more minutes last year and us having added Barnes (or whomever) to the team. I can say that, since it's not hindsight .. but rather recalling the foresight.
    So you are saying that the Jazz are a year behind?
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    So I was very mad about the game, but I wasn't going to vent here, because you guys all feel the same way. However, Ty's postgame interview got my blood boiling. On why he let Trey and Gordon play while having bad games, "You gotta let them battle through it because that's what you gotta do." Really are you kidding me. You have to balls to say that when you pulled Alec after 16 minutes against LAC and Kanter got 19 minutes toinght?

  14. #58
    In pursuit of #9 PKM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangello View Post
    So you are saying that the Jazz are a year behind?
    I don't think it can be quantified into a precise timeframe, but yes, I think we'd be much further ahead if our young guys would have gotten significantly more burn and we ended up with a lottery pick (Barnes?).
    #dumptruckin

  15. #59
    Senior Member orangello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM View Post
    I don't think it can be quantified into a precise timeframe, but yes, I think we'd be much further ahead if our young guys would have gotten significantly more burn and we ended up with a lottery pick (Barnes?).
    I understand what you are saying. I know it has been discussed here before but unless you are the Lakers, Heat or Spurs your Window of winning something meaningful is very short.

    Look at the Thunder. I'm not saying that they will not get back to the finals but they were close to keeping the most important parts of their finals run together but they play exactly 0 games after getting to the finals.

    I hope the Jazz opportunity has not already been missed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    So I was very mad about the game, but I wasn't going to vent here, because you guys all feel the same way. However, Ty's postgame interview got my blood boiling. On why he let Trey and Gordon play while having bad games, "You gotta let them battle through it because that's what you gotta do." Really are you kidding me. You have to balls to say that when you pulled Alec after 16 minutes against LAC and Kanter got 19 minutes toinght?

  16. #60
    Senior Member CitizenofCapua's Avatar
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    My point of view;

    After Williams&Memo&Boozer era end Jazz should have start from scratch in rebuilding process. That way natural development period would give our young guys pt & burn they need for years to come. We were got our high draft picks and Favors ready (williams, brewer trade) it would be a shorter process than the most teams that we see on the rebuilding process like Cavs, Wolves etc. and would be similar to OKC`s with same group of age youngsters.

    But we didn`t show the patient and made the hasty Big Al trade and give away Koufos and future 1st round picks and tried to be a above average team at the strong west unnecessarily & desperately. Now we stuck with a team that veterans at the leading role and every player on the team can claim that he deserves +20 minutes and you cant argue about that.

    Current situation it`s not just about Corbin and his wrong decisions, in the same time it`s about poor GM decisions that had been made for the last 3 year.

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