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  1. #61
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    I'll be the contrarian - to some degree.
    - It is clear that without an well organized team, the jazz suck. Players don't know how to react when the pushing the ball plan doesn't work (other than take crappy jumpers after one pass.) This is seriously affectiving Milsap's typical game as GVC pointed out.

    - Jefferson isn't a fat, dumb, lazy, loser, that is where I'll contend. His game is worsened by the disorganized play. So for those of us who were postive on Big Al - myself included, can see it is worse for Big Al now. Big Al was acquired when we had a top 3 pt guard and top 3 head coach - both of which were very important (required) to have the Big Al experiment work out. No way it works out in the environment he's in now AND especially as the season progresses like this a breakdown is the locker room is going to happen (contract year guys vs young'ens)

    - Mo Williams is wonderful scorer. And he shows some evidence of pt guard by throwing a few sweet passes, but it will be VERY VERY difficult for a team to gel with him shooting so much and not playing a formalized offense.

    - Ma Williams "sucks" becuase he's undisciplined shooter. There was hope he'd get a second chance in Utah, the home of the strict, organized basketball program. I think this assumption is still true - IF he's part of an organized, structured offense, (OH-fense for you Majerus fans) I would bet money he'd get a resurgence in his career. He's in the Donyell Marshall category, which when he first arrived is taking fading-left or right 3pters, floating jupmers, etc. It took him about 1/3 of a season, maybe 1/4, and soon he was shooting properly once he arrived in utah... But that brings us to final point...

    - I'm very lenient on coaches, even calling myself a 'sloan apologist' for some of you, but i can't get with Corbin. I'm really trying hard to 'apologize' for him, but i think it is going to be a short stay for him. Not becuase i debate his "in game strategy" (which in my opinion is the difference between the 90% and the 95% effectiveness) it is becuase the first 90% of the effectivness of the team comes from the structure of the team, the buy-in to the plan, the willingess to play the roles asked, and the fundamentals, etc. Sloan was able to take Ben Handlogten and friends to a .500 season on structure "the system" alone. Unless i see a miracle here in the next few games, i'm going to throw in the towel on Corbin becuause, i don't think he can manage the team, organized an offense/defense and/or get the team to buy in.

    In summary, i'd love for Big Al to have worked out - he does have a commodity to his game that is extremely rare - one-on-one offense - and i was very hopeful that Jazz could take advantage of that, in spite of some weaknesses. But the situation now will give him and me no hope to work out here.

  2. #62
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harcher View Post
    Big Al was acquired when we had a top 3 pt guard and top 3 head coach - both of which were very important (required) to have the Big Al experiment work out
    This is as far as I could get. ********. Utter ********. Big Al is incapable of playing team basketball. He was completely ineffective trying to run "Jazz" sets with Sloan/Deron. We're seeing it again now, as Corbin is trying to run him off the ball and with the ball from the high post. He is completely useless when he doesn't have the ball in the low post. Mo is exactly the type of point guard you want if you have Al; a shooter, not a distributor/penetrator.
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    This is as far as I could get. ********. Utter ********. Big Al is incapable of playing team basketball. He was completely ineffective trying to run "Jazz" sets with Sloan/Deron. We're seeing it again now, as Corbin is trying to run him off the ball and with the ball from the high post. He is completely useless when he doesn't have the ball in the low post. Mo is exactly the type of point guard you want if you have Al; a shooter, not a distributor/penetrator.
    I still say they were REQUIRED to WORK OUT. If your argument was that the Jazz should have known not to sign him, that is different argument. I would say there is no way that we picked up big Al becuase we wanted to be Showtime-type hoop. But the expirement with Big Al was an assumption that a structured offense (other than him just getting the ball in the low post and shooting) was REQUIRED.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    This is as far as I could get. ********. Utter ********. He is completely useless when he doesn't have the ball in the low post.
    There was the hope that the Jazz of all teams would be able to get Big Al the ball on the low post 'properly' and in the system. Karl made his living off of this as we all know. The ASSUMPTION was that the system could take advantage of Big Al scorign skills in the low post - which are excellent.

  5. #65
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harcher View Post
    There was the hope that the Jazz of all teams would be able to get Big Al the ball on the low post 'properly' and in the system. Karl made his living off of this as we all know.
    Seems to me Karl was better in transition, with the ball from the high post, in pick and rolls, and passing from just about anywhere. He also got to the line and could set screens (on and off the ball).
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

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  7. #66
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harcher View Post
    If your argument was that the Jazz should have known not to sign him, that is different argument.
    I liked the trade at the time.
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    Seems to me Karl was better in transition, with the ball from the high post, in pick and rolls, and passing from just about anywhere. He also got to the line and could set screens (on and off the ball).
    I'm not one iota arguing that Big Al is in Karl's league. Just saying that becuase the Jazz had a system that INCLUDED getting the ball to a low post player in a very effective way, there was some belief they could make something of Big Al.

  9. #68
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harcher View Post
    I'm not one iota arguing that Big Al is in Karl's league. Just saying that becuase the Jazz had a system that INCLUDED getting the ball to a low post player in a very effective way, there was some belief they could make something of Big Al.
    Absolutely, which is why I thought the trade was worthwhile. At this point, I'm convinced Al is never going to figure out how to make quick/smart reads/decisions. He does one thing relatively well and little else.
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

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