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  1. #226
    Senior Member AKMVP's Avatar
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    Yeah, big AL is bad at pick and roll defense - we know that. But he compensates for it on the other end of the floor. Neither Favors nor Kanter has that ability to do it consistently and when game is on the line. Plus if you put Favors and Kanter as starters now they would foul out without playing in 4th quarter. It is not time yet to handle them reigns. They are not ready.
    Exum = Biggest bust in Jazz history.

  2. #227
    Senior Member Broncster's Avatar
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    Much better substitutions at the end of the game for Corbin. I cant remember which OT it was (I think the end of 1st OT) he pulled PGs off the court put Jefferson on the person passing the ball in, then had Hayward, Marvin, Milsap and Favors guarding. He played Favors a lot more and pulled Jefferson at the end of 2nd OT when we needed a defensive stop, but Lucas makes a good shot.

  3. #228
    Senior Member LazyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKMVP View Post
    Yeah, big AL is bad at pick and roll defense - we know that. But he compensates for it on the other end of the floor. Neither Favors nor Kanter has that ability to do it consistently and when game is on the line. Plus if you put Favors and Kanter as starters now they would foul out without playing in 4th quarter. It is not time yet to handle them reigns. They are not ready.
    Yes, I think we can all agree that Al is better at scoring in the post than Kanter and Favors, but we can also all agree that a team with Jefferson starting at center will never accomplish anything in the playoffs. So when the idea is to win NBA titles what is the point of having him? Why not see what the young guys have to offer?
    Sure, you may think it may cost the Jazz a few regular season wins and maybe a shot at the playoffs (I personally believe it'd be addition by subtraction and they'd win the same amount of games or more), but the Jazz know where the ceiling is with Jefferson. It is not a very high ceiling.

  4. #229
    Senior Member AKMVP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyD View Post
    Yes, I think we can all agree that Al is better at scoring in the post than Kanter and Favors, but we can also all agree that a team with Jefferson starting at center will never accomplish anything in the playoffs. So when the idea is to win NBA titles what is the point of having him? Why not see what the young guys have to offer?
    Sure, you may think it may cost the Jazz a few regular season wins and maybe a shot at the playoffs (I personally believe it'd be addition by subtraction and they'd win the same amount of games or more), but the Jazz know where the ceiling is with Jefferson. It is not a very high ceiling.
    Yes, we know what big AL's ceiling is - and that along with Millsap it should be enough to make playoffs. They both are in contract year - Corbin has no choice but to play them. He can't give major minutes to Favors and Kanter and risk losing his job. It would be different if nobody would expect Jazz to make playoffs, then hell yes, play youngsters and hope for nice draft pick. And it is just not realistic to expect that given major minutes in this season Favors and Kanter would result in same or close number of the wins for the Jazz, sorry, just not happening. We would lose about 30% more IMHO. We need patience.
    I sound like broken record but wait for next year!
    Exum = Biggest bust in Jazz history.

  5. #230
    Senior Member LazyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKMVP View Post
    Yes, we know what big AL's ceiling is - and that along with Millsap it should be enough to make playoffs. They both are in contract year - Corbin has no choice but to play them. He can't give major minutes to Favors and Kanter and risk losing his job. It would be different if nobody would expect Jazz to make playoffs, then hell yes, play youngsters and hope for nice draft pick. And it is just not realistic to expect that given major minutes in this season Favors and Kanter would result in same or close number of the wins for the Jazz, sorry, just not happening. We would lose about 30% more IMHO. We need patience.
    I sound like broken record but wait for next year!
    Agree to disagree on that point, but it's really irrelevant. No one knows for sure, nor will they find out, so either one of us can be right or wrong.
    I have accepted the fact that Jazz fans have to wait till next year. Can't wait!

  6. #231
    Senior Member bjunior's Avatar
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    Well, a win is a win. Great to see our guys plays no matter what.
    Last edited by bjunior; 11-13-2012 at 05:09 AM.

  7. #232
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    Damn DVR didn't record the last OT, sigh. Glad they won. It stopped in the last 10 seconds of the 2nd OT and I honestly thought they had it by then.

  8. #233
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    In this game, Kanter didn't deserve anymore minutes. He looks like a completely different player on the road. However, it was nice to see Favors play big minutes. Yea offensively he might not be ready but defensively he is a BIG difference maker. Again the Big three (Millsap, Favors, Jefferson) is our best lineup. Kanter needs to get bigger minutes at home and has to earn minutes on the road for now. I would put Marvin Williams on the bench and tell him that we want you to be more aggressive offensively. With Foye and Marvin on the bench the Jazz will have more offense.

    The one thing that I have notice is that our guards look Kanter and Favors off a lot. They need to run a few plays for these guys and let them build their confidence. On the road it seems as thought our guys are falling in love with the 3 pt line and not utilizing our interior guys as much especially the young guys. Nice win last night!

  9. #234
    Senior Member sepanol's Avatar
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    Jefferson give up so many points in defense that at the end of the game we need him to shoot miraclous clutch 3s in order to beat pathetic teams like Toronto.

  10. #235
    Moderator Revolution 9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKMVP View Post
    Yeah, big AL is bad at pick and roll defense - we know that. But he compensates for it on the other end of the floor. Neither Favors nor Kanter has that ability to do it consistently and when game is on the line. Plus if you put Favors and Kanter as starters now they would foul out without playing in 4th quarter. It is not time yet to handle them reigns. They are not ready.
    and they never will until they get the playing time, and are put in that situation.
    "Hayward can be a #1?"......"Maybe if he goes down to Fort Wayne...DLeague" -ESPN

  11. #236
    Senior Member bjunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sepanol View Post
    Jefferson give up so many points in defense that at the end of the game we need him to shoot miraclous clutch 3s in order to beat pathetic teams like Toronto.
    he does that his all career, only that time he actually won

  12.  

     

  13. #237
    Senior Member The Thriller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKMVP View Post
    Yeah, big AL is bad at pick and roll defense - we know that. But he compensates for it on the other end of the floor. Neither Favors nor Kanter has that ability to do it consistently and when game is on the line. Plus if you put Favors and Kanter as starters now they would foul out without playing in 4th quarter. It is not time yet to handle them reigns. They are not ready.
    No. No he doesn't.

    He shoots an incredibly low percentage and shoots an insanely small amount of FTs.

    Nothing compensates for bad defense. DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS. Didn't we learn this lesson from all those years with AK47, Boozer, Korver, and Memo? Especially when the offensive player just isn't a very good offensive player. Big Al will never be a part of a championship team unless he's riding the bench.
    Lakers Suck.

  14. #238
    Senior Member orangello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncster View Post
    Much better substitutions at the end of the game for Corbin. I cant remember which OT it was (I think the end of 1st OT) he pulled PGs off the court put Jefferson on the person passing the ball in, then had Hayward, Marvin, Milsap and Favors guarding. He played Favors a lot more and pulled Jefferson at the end of 2nd OT when we needed a defensive stop, but Lucas makes a good shot.
    This.
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    So I was very mad about the game, but I wasn't going to vent here, because you guys all feel the same way. However, Ty's postgame interview got my blood boiling. On why he let Trey and Gordon play while having bad games, "You gotta let them battle through it because that's what you gotta do." Really are you kidding me. You have to balls to say that when you pulled Alec after 16 minutes against LAC and Kanter got 19 minutes toinght?

  15. #239
    Senior Member //r00t 4 Jazz's Avatar
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    At some point you do have to give Toronto credit for playing well, the defense wasn't great but at the same time the Raptors hit some tough shots and played better then there numbers show so far this season. So it is nice that even though the Raptors played one of their best games of the season the Jazz still managed to win.

    Lots of hate as per the norm and lord knows everybody in my house hears me yelling similar things to the players and coaches at the TV, getting caught up in the moments and reactionary things. My biggest complaint of the night was the lack of rebounding and boxing out by every Jazz big man. However just wanted to say even with the players, teams and coaches faults still need to give credit.

    Corbin did change things up with rotations and line ups, even if it isn't exactly what some or a lot of people wanted it still was some change. Mo (maybe due to being a little hobbled) in the first half more so and some in the OT's looked to be distributing first and looking for his shot second. Anyway those are just 2 quick easy examples I thought but there was also more IMO.

    Don't expect them to win the next to games but hope for continued signs of growth and improvement.

  16. #240
    Senior Member orangello's Avatar
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    Here is a fun stat for everyone.

    Bargnani was 5 of 7 being defended by anyone not named Favors. Bargnani being defended by Favors was 0-10 with only 2 fts.

    This makes me happy because I would say that Favors biggest defensive liability was guarding perimeter bigs. Bargnani is about as perimeter as you can get for a big.
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    So I was very mad about the game, but I wasn't going to vent here, because you guys all feel the same way. However, Ty's postgame interview got my blood boiling. On why he let Trey and Gordon play while having bad games, "You gotta let them battle through it because that's what you gotta do." Really are you kidding me. You have to balls to say that when you pulled Alec after 16 minutes against LAC and Kanter got 19 minutes toinght?

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