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Thread: Secession

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltyDawg View Post
    You listed about 10 reasons why they would be able to pull it off (in your opinion), and also said they would have the easiest time doing it out of all the states. You didn't list 1 reason why they shouldn't.

    Sorry, I'm not a mind reader, I don't see how this is not the same thing as saying they'd be better off.
    Apparently you are also not a native speaker of English, if you can't tell the difference between "best able to accomplish something" and "better off after accomplishing that thing". Sometimes the best change is worse than the status quo.

    I disagree with Stoked that there would be an economic boom in Texas if it seceded, mostly becaue there really isn't much holding it back right now that would be altered. However, I certainly can see where this is not the same as saying Texas would be better off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
    Apparently you are also not a native speaker of English, if you can't tell the difference between "best able to accomplish something" and "better off after accomplishing that thing". Sometimes the best change is worse than the status quo.

    I disagree with Stoked that there would be an economic boom in Texas if it seceded, mostly becaue there really isn't much holding it back right now that would be altered. However, I certainly can see where this is not the same as saying Texas would be better off.
    I dont think they would be. They would lose alot by seceeding but I think if any state could pull it off than it would be Texas.

    The reason I think we would see a boom in the economy is that Texas would need to make up for and increase a range of things. So you have the need and then you just lost federal taxes. SO I think business would look at it as an opportunity to expand in an area with lower taxes.

    I think the reason behind a population boom would be obvious. I think alot of conservatives would flock there. I can see Texas increasin in population by a couple million in a few years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoked View Post
    The reason I think we would see a boom in the economy is that Texas would need to make up for and increase a range of things. So you have the need and then you just lost federal taxes. SO I think business would look at it as an opportunity to expand in an area with lower taxes.

    I think the reason behind a population boom would be obvious. I think alot of conservatives would flock there. I can see Texas increasin in population by a couple million in a few years.
    Texas is one of the payer states, so it's true enough that there would probably be more tax revenue to go around replacing the federal taxes. However, I think that woud be quickly eaten up by the new infrastructure Texas would have to build to replace the defense capabilities and entitlement programs Texans would insist upon. Among other things, I think it's very likely a solo Texas would spend a higher percentage of it's GDP on the military that the USA currently does. It's much easier to complain about Medicare/Medicaid than to remove them them, even in Texas. So, I don't see Texas suddeenly having lower taxes after a secession. That's besides the whole question of whether lower taxes really do help contries create economic booms.

    As for the conservatives flocking to Texas, why would Texas take them? Maybe some of the younger ones, but conservatives tend to be older.
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
    Texas is one of the payer states, so it's true enough that there would probably be more tax revenue to go around replacing the federal taxes. However, I think that woud be quickly eaten up by the new infrastructure Texas would have to build to replace the defense capabilities and entitlement programs Texans would insist upon. Among other things, I think it's very likely a solo Texas would spend a higher percentage of it's GDP on the military that the USA currently does. It's much easier to complain about Medicare/Medicaid than to remove them them, even in Texas. So, I don't see Texas suddeenly having lower taxes after a secession. That's besides the whole question of whether lower taxes really do help contries create economic booms.

    As for the conservatives flocking to Texas, why would Texas take them? Maybe some of the younger ones, but conservatives tend to be older.
    I'm sure Texas would quickly have an immigration policy. I can't really see them denying everyone. For example: plenty of young people in places like Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Mississippi, Tennesse...that would agree with what Texas had done. That is alot of educated (see Utah and Idaho) young workers right there.

    I think the net result would be a US that is much more liberal. You take texas out and it is much harder for the conservatives to win a presidency. I think that would drive alot of them to Texas over time. Also that would result in a much bluer US.
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    I can't see Texas spending more on their military. We have an Empire-grade military. Texas wouldn't need, want or be able to provide 1/50th the military capability of the U.S.. There's really no need for the U.S. to have such a massive military, except that we keep finding reasons to use it.

    If the only tool you have is a hammer everything starts looking like a nail.

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    Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, North Carolina, Tennessee and Texas all have over 25k signatures and will get a White House response.

    Also All 50 states have a petition up to seceed. Texas is at about 100,000 signatures and about 675,000 signatures if you combine all 50 states.

    Keep in mind you can sign any petition any where. Such as people in California signing the Texas one because they want Texas out of the US.

    2 Questions
    1. How many states do you think will get the 25k required for a white house response by 12/11/12? I say 24
    2. How many signatures do you think there will be total? I say 2.25 million.
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    Other than petitions are there any organizations behind the succession movement that are actively trying to make this happen?

    This seems mostly symbolic to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameface View Post
    Other than petitions are there any organizations behind the succession movement that are actively trying to make this happen?

    This seems mostly symbolic to me.
    I cannot see any orgs. behind them other then the ones that are always there. In Texas some of the republican leaders support the idea.

    I agree that it is mostly symbolic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoked View Post
    I cannot see any orgs. behind them other then the ones that are always there. In Texas some of the republican leaders support the idea.

    I agree that it is mostly symbolic.
    It's the right kind of symbolism to be sending to the Obama administration. People are finally starting to come together to stand up to the Washington machine, and let them know who is really in charge here.
    I'm sure nobody actually believes that a state will secede, but I do agree with Stoked when he says Texas would be the most self sufficient.
    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoked View Post
    I'm sure Texas would quickly have an immigration policy. I can't really see them denying everyone. For example: plenty of young people in places like Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Mississippi, Tennesse...that would agree with what Texas had done. That is alot of educated (see Utah and Idaho) young workers right there.

    I think the net result would be a US that is much more liberal. You take texas out and it is much harder for the conservatives to win a presidency. I think that would drive alot of them to Texas over time. Also that would result in a much bluer US.
    How long would it take before Texas declared war on the United States?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameface View Post
    I can't see Texas spending more on their military. We have an Empire-grade military. Texas wouldn't need, want or be able to provide 1/50th the military capability of the U.S.. There's really no need for the U.S. to have such a massive military, except that we keep finding reasons to use it.

    If the only tool you have is a hammer everything starts looking like a nail.
    I meant more as a percentage of GDP, nor more in terms of raw dollars. I think that since Texas probably represents better than 1/10 of our economy, they could manage 1/10 of our military.

    Texans strike me as being very bullish on hammers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution 9 View Post
    How long would it take before Texas declared war on the United States?
    Well that is a very tricky question. It could be anywhere from immediately to never.

    Keep in mind this is Texas asking the President to let them leave. If he does (he wont) then why fight at all?

    They may end up being very chummy together or they may be bitter enemies. Who knows?

    Good thing we won't find out. (I hope)
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    Senior Member TheSilencer1313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoked View Post
    They may end up being very chummy together or they may be bitter enemies. Who knows?
    I think the Republic of Texas would be an absolute success, and there's no reason to think that Texas would want to create an enemy of the United States.
    They obviously just want to run things more according to the Constitution, and I'm all for that.
    If this ever amazingly happened, our forefathers would be looking down upon us very pleased at actually standing up for ourselves once in awhile.
    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered." - Thomas Jefferson

  15. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoked View Post
    I dont think they would be. They would lose alot by seceeding but I think if any state could pull it off than it would be Texas.

    The reason I think we would see a boom in the economy is that Texas would need to make up for and increase a range of things. So you have the need and then you just lost federal taxes. SO I think business would look at it as an opportunity to expand in an area with lower taxes.

    I think the reason behind a population boom would be obvious. I think alot of conservatives would flock there. I can see Texas increasin in population by a couple million in a few years.
    This guy from work who is a hardcore conservative, just moved there a couple weeks ago.

  16. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSilencer1313 View Post
    I think the Republic of Texas would be an absolute success, and there's no reason to think that Texas would want to create an enemy of the United States.
    They obviously just want to run things more according to the Constitution, and I'm all for that.
    If this ever amazingly happened, our forefathers would be looking down upon us very pleased at actually standing up for ourselves once in awhile.


    Oh Gordon! Rick Perry would be the next Yeltsin--so fearful of democracy and inflation that his radical anti-Federal Reserve reforms would lead to a collapse of the Texas economy and a rise of a Texan version of the Russian oligarchs. Don't tread on me would get the exact poverty they have been begging for -- freedom to beg for scraps as opposed to allowing a thriving economy to support a military strong enough to repel invading foreigners... good luck becoming Mexico's bitch, Taxes, errrr Texas.

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