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  1. #1
    Premium Member Twin Towers's Avatar
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    What happened to the role playing PG that can shoot?

    After watching the the Jazz play without Mo Williams I noticed that the ball moved around a lot more. We also know how bad Tinsley is at shooting. I love Mo Williams and think he is huge upgrade over Devin Harris but just thinking about the type of PG we want next summer.

    Is it possible to find a role playing PG that can run a offense without having to dribble around in circles (Deron, Nash, Chris Paul etc type)?
    Notice that these types of PG's who dominate the ball never get to the finals???? Not saying that they never will but usually in the playoffs they are easier to stop if the entire team depended on 1 player for the offense to run.

    Is it also possible to find a role playing shooting guard that can shoot but doesn't jack up shots constantly???

    What happened to the players like BJ Armstrong, Ron Harper type players? That set up the offense but understand the ball needs to move a lot. A player who understood when to slow things down and when to run. Setting the tone for the team.

    I remember all through the 90's there used to be plenty of players like this. Now its PG's who think they are SG's or PG's who think they should the only ones who get assists. Its selfish to think you are the only play maker on the court. Like Nash, Deron and Paul.

    But its also selfish to shoot constantly and not keep the ball moving.

    Any free agents next summer who have this quality??? Or rookies in next years draft???

    Mario Chalmers seems to have this quality. He is on team option next summer which they will re up.

    Do we try to sign Maynor next summer??? Just throwing out ideas.
    "Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." ~ John Wooden

  2. #2
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    It should be noted that the Jazz moved the ball around a lot with Tinsley because the were in a half court offense the whole time. With Mo Williams, the Jazz run a lot more so there are fewer passes.

  3. #3
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    I agree that Mo isn't the type of PG the Jazz need. I love Mo and think he should be our shooting guard but he has a very hard time in the half court offense. He missed Hayward and Favors (PnR).

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  5. #4
    Senior Member JJAS's Avatar
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    Notice who these type of PGs (Armstrong, Chalmers, Fisher in his prime) played with!

  6. #5
    Senior Member Hack's Avatar
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    In the future we'll clone john stockton

  7. #6
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    Mo played a little better tonight. He's still not a very good PG, but played the drive and kick better than I've seen all year and he didn't turn it into the Mo Show.

  8. #7
    Senior Member jope's Avatar
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    Mo had some impressive passes tonight, 14 asts, 42% from 3. Does that meet your criteria?

  9. #8
    Premium Member Twin Towers's Avatar
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    It is true that they ran more half court sets. But that again proves my point at some levels. Mo Runs down the court a lot and takes very quick shots himself. So it does hurt the rest of the team sometimes. And again I am not a MO hater. I think he is a good point guard and better than anything we could of got.
    But his shot selection sucks at times.

    Yes they played with great stars. But also know they didn't force shots when they got the ball. They only shot when they were open. I didn't even name Fisher because I thought his shot selection was bad and has always been bad.

    Mo gets the ball into the post but not off the pick and Roll.

    And if you love stats and you base things on them then I am not going to argue with you. Stats never tell the whole story. And even if we discussed Mo's stats tonight. He played 50 minutes!!! If you are a point guard and play 50 minutes and you don't get double digit assist then that is pretty bad.

    A great point guard is more in tune with the tempo and controlling the flow and seeing things before they happen. Rather then the jump shooting ball hogs that have to be the play makers that are flooding the NBA now. Those teams that have that ball hog PG (lots of assists doesn't mean your not a ball hog) don't win championships.

    I actually like Mo Williams right now for our team because he can shoot. But I think finding a more modest if you will PG is a better option.
    "Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." ~ John Wooden

  10. #9
    Senior Member Hack's Avatar
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    I think over all, I am pleasantly surprised by Mo Williams. He isnt bad for what we had to give up. He definitely is better shooter at pg than we have had in a while.

    Ya, some of his decisions arent the best, but he isnt atrocious. And its still really early. Give him time to gel with the team. Id say, not bad so far.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twin Towers View Post
    It is true that they ran more half court sets. But that again proves my point at some levels. Mo Runs down the court a lot and takes very quick shots himself. So it does hurt the rest of the team sometimes. And again I am not a MO hater. I think he is a good point guard and better than anything we could of got.
    But his shot selection sucks at times.

    Yes they played with great stars. But also know they didn't force shots when they got the ball. They only shot when they were open. I didn't even name Fisher because I thought his shot selection was bad and has always been bad.

    Mo gets the ball into the post but not off the pick and Roll.

    And if you love stats and you base things on them then I am not going to argue with you. Stats never tell the whole story. And even if we discussed Mo's stats tonight. He played 50 minutes!!! If you are a point guard and play 50 minutes and you don't get double digit assist then that is pretty bad.

    A great point guard is more in tune with the tempo and controlling the flow and seeing things before they happen. Rather then the jump shooting ball hogs that have to be the play makers that are flooding the NBA now. Those teams that have that ball hog PG (lots of assists doesn't mean your not a ball hog) don't win championships.

    I actually like Mo Williams right now for our team because he can shoot. But I think finding a more modest if you will PG is a better option.
    Tony Parker was MVP of the NBA Finals.

    I have no problem with Mo pushing the tempo. My main problem with Harris (besides his often poor shooting) was the fact that he almost never pushed the tempo.

  12. #11
    Premium Member bluenote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltyDawg View Post
    Tony Parker was MVP of the NBA Finals.

    I have no problem with Mo pushing the tempo. My main problem with Harris (besides his often poor shooting) was the fact that he almost never pushed the tempo.
    Just looked up Harris' stats in ATL, wow...I thought he was going to make somewhat of an impact on that team. I guess it wasn't just a "wrong fit" in Utah - he is just fading quickly huh?

  13. #12
    Premium Member Twin Towers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltyDawg View Post
    Tony Parker was MVP of the NBA Finals.

    I have no problem with Mo pushing the tempo. My main problem with Harris (besides his often poor shooting) was the fact that he almost never pushed the tempo.
    Its true Tony Parker played well. But we are not going to get a Duncan or a Ginobili on our team. We will get poor man options.
    Tony Parker also allows ball movement. Having a great PG is not a horrible thing. Just depends if he has to have the ball or if he can play off it and how Parker allowed Ginolobi to take control. Or Duncan set up his teammates. The assists were spread out.
    But even if it does happen its rare.

    I actually agree. Nothing wrong with pushing the tempo. I love point guards that push the tempo and try to get easy shots. But Mo Williams pushes the tempo and takes jumpers with guys open on his sides. Or he drives into the paint and throws up a dumb shot or throws a pass while jumping (7 turnovers tonight. Which means 7 turnovers to 14 assists. That is not very good.

    I blame Corbin more than Mo Williams though. They need to take the ball out of his hand and let Hayward run the offense more. Balance it out so the ball moves around more. Hayward is a better playmaker also. Hayward keeps planted when passing. Mo can't seem to calm down.

    I don't want to trade him or anything like that. I think he is better than anything have had since Deron and the best thing we could get. I knew he had these flaws. I just hoped the PG wouldn't touch the ball as much. I was hoping Mo Would touch the ball as much as Devin Harris did last year but just make his shots. We seem to be handing him the ball at every chance we get. I just disagree with that philosophy. Ball needs to be balanced more with playmaking.
    Last edited by Twin Towers; 11-13-2012 at 12:40 AM.
    "Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." ~ John Wooden

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