I don't really understand what you're saying. Do you feel the union had some obligation to accept whatever they were given in order to protect the jobs of everyone who does business with hostess? What should they have done?Originally Posted by Red Jazz Fan
That is crappy, and a bad situation. I hope you find something soon.
What would you have done or suggested if you were one of the bakers? Just curious. Was it really another in a string of pay cuts? What is the truth here?
Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!
I can't speak to exactly what the cuts were before because I wasn't there for them BUT, I knew a few dozen drivers that had taken substantial cuts with the promise of getting them back. The majority of them were on the boat of ratifying the deal so they had some income while they looked elsewhere. There is fault on both sides but it was ultimately the Bakers Union that created the mess of those 19,500.
Gameface: Yes. Why put EVERYONE out when you can suck it up for a year before the cuts get given back? I'll be lucky not to lose my house because they decided nothing was better than something. As I posted before, the bakers union had no interest inthe teamsters members. The Teamsters leadership urged the bakers to take a secret vote before proceeding with the strike and it was ignored. They wanted theirs and everyone else could just go to hell.
So did you read that link I posted? Let me post it again in case you didn't see it:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/1...stess-Bankery#
Do you disagree with any of that?
Also, why would the company just close down because the bakers decided to strike? Why wouldn't they just call up the local temp agency and say they need a bunch of unskilled workers and they'll pay $8.00 to $11.00 per hour, depending on experience?
Have you seen the latest reports saying the company is asking the bankruptcy court for permission to pay the top execs $1.8 million in bonuses, in addition to their full salaries?
Honestly, I think the management was corrupt. Nobody would have ever been paid back any concessions. Just like nobody got paid back for the pensions that were borrowed.
Sorry you lost your job man, but I think you're placing blame on the wrong people.
Obviously they decided it wasn't worth it. It isn't like they're making out at your expense, they're all losing their jobs, too. I'm sorry this is happening to you, but they didn't owe you anything.
Yeah, I get RJF's point of view but I'm with you. Let's see, a company is essentially run into the ground to the point of bankruptcy and executives somehow think they deserve a bonus? This boggles mind in the same way executives during and after the financial crisis bailout felt entitled to massive bonuses despite doing a ****ty job.
Executive Bonuses = 1.8 million
Amount of money raided from the pension in which there are currently no plans to pay back = 1.1 million
Last edited by candrew; 11-30-2012 at 01:58 PM.
This is what American "free enterprise" has become, no holds barred.
"capitalism' at it's finest.
The reason the British colonies took umbrage at the inside track British corporates in the eighteenth century had over their colonial governments bought and paid for in England is the same reason American States today should take umbrage at the inside track "international" corporates have over our "Washington DC" government bought and paid for by capitalists sporting offshore bank accounts and scheming to buy American companies for the express purpose of taking them to China or Mexico to build virtual slave labor camps supplying the "world" markets in our States.
So are you folks going to buy twinkies when they bear "hecho en Mexico" labels, or "Made in China". . . . .?
Hell yeah. . . . . . and at Walmart.
Do we import any large-scale baked good? Is it really feasible?
If they taste good and I want them I'll buy them, no matter where they're made.
This world will be a much better place when workers in China want twinkies, big screen tvs and fancy cars...and can buy them. I don't want to starve the world in the name of American prosperity. If they make good twinkies in China and sell them at a price I think is fair then more power to them.
Despite the jokes, Twinkies do actualy go stale and/or develop mold (as do all the other cakes, pies, etc.). Baking non-locally seems like a recipe for regularly wasting a lot of product.
food is routinely shipped internationally. . . . everything from staples like grain to bananas.
If the "value added" part of the price makes it worthwhile shipping ingredients to China and products back to the USA, and the labor cost savings will pay the freight, that's what we will do.
just sayin' . . . . . of course it also works if we can import cheap labor and have them live in tightly packed housing, working and sleeping as if they were inside a nuclear submarine for a year, we'll do that too.
Unions today have been turned into lapdogs for corporate management generally, and however stupid some unions may be in cases where they pretend to stand on "principle", they can hardly claim to be morally superior than "management" when the bosses are corrupt and just as bent on feathering their own nests as the "management" side. But the original concept of unions as worker watchdogs and a meaningful force for bettering working conditions was a good one, and is badly needed today as much as ever, all across the world.
And yes, tariffs are a good idea too, because they will encourage local production of essentials, ensuring more competition and preventing exploitation by the larger cartelists.
Last edited by babe; 12-05-2012 at 07:55 PM.
The working conditions in China and the expectations and desires of the common Chinese workers are changing, as the expectations and desires of early industrial age workers in the U.S. have changed. China is emerging from a long dark age. The emergence is at the same time threatening and encouraging. The most populace nation on planet Earth, filled with more human life than three nations such as the U.S.. I wish them well. It's a hard journey, but well worth the trip.
A couple of comments regarding unions:
1. Unions are more powerful in some states than others. Utah is a right to work state, so employees have an option to join their respective union and pay dues, or not. Also unions negotiate exclusive contracts in some cases. In Las Vegas it is common for construction companies to create a sister company that is union specifically to pursue such contracts.
2. Union executives also are paid very well. They don't clear what CEOs do, but it's a good chunk of change.
I don't mind unions protecting the worker, and they definitely shouldn't be done away with. I don't agree when they engage in anticompetitive activities like PLAs (project labor agreements).
As far as Hostess goes, Politico is not likely to blame the union and omit info that does. Just as a conservative outlet like fox will likely focus on anti-union aspects of a story. I read all three links posted, the fox one is really a CNN Money story, so they are all left leaning outlets giving the story. I didn't see much more than propaganda. CNN shows the cuts to be 8%, which is confirmed by our poster here and realistic imo. Also the drastic cuts sited on KOS do not show a reference and is a blog post from an individual who only discloses a screen name. I guarantee that would be all over major media if those numbers were verifiable. It would be interesting to see the actual contract.
Chop it!!!
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