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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameface View Post
    The working conditions in China and the expectations and desires of the common Chinese workers are changing, as the expectations and desires of early industrial age workers in the U.S. have changed. China is emerging from a long dark age. The emergence is at the same time threatening and encouraging. The most populace nation on planet Earth, filled with more human life than three nations such as the U.S.. I wish them well. It's a hard journey, but well worth the trip.
    I agree, from my relative ignorance, that the best hope we have is the ability of the ordinary Chinese people to improve their lives in a peaceful way within their present circumstances. . . . and that there seems to be good reason to hope for this . . . . and I wish them well, too.

    According to my sister-in-law, whose father served in the Chinese Navy and whose mother has quietly and almost inconspicuously lived as a Christian through her whole life, life is getting better and particularly for the fairly strong "capitalist" business manager class, who are arguably responsible for the resurgence of American auto company fortunes. . . . . In mainland China, every advancing family "must have" their own Buick.

    But there are still a whole lot of Chinese workers who are dying from the cadmium in the paint they use on toys for export. . . . .and in many other specific hazardous working situations.

    And the air we breathe is being impacted from our downwind position on the globe.

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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    food is routinely shipped internationally. . . . everything from staples like grain to bananas.
    Yes, not all food is baked goods. Grains don't ripen much off the stalk. Fruit is pickedand shipped before it is ripe. What does any of this have to do with baked goods?

    Tariffs carry their own load of negative effects, but I'll let the economists talk aboiut those, if they are so inclined.
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

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  4. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
    Yes, not all food is baked goods. Grains don't ripen much off the stalk. Fruit is pickedand shipped before it is ripe. What does any of this have to do with baked goods?

    Tariffs carry their own load of negative effects, but I'll let the economists talk aboiut those, if they are so inclined.
    The Hostess products are very long "shelf life", with pretty high value/weight at the checkstand, and being "baked goods" is irrelevant to the economics of producing them anywhere on the planet. What is relevant is the cost of labor, and as is the case in many other specific products, the removal of tariffs facilitates relocating production offshore/outside this country. . . . . and is the principal economic fact that has meant American soil union jobs have been lost.

    Yet our unions have supported the legislation on tariff reductions, and cost American union members their jobs.

    The disproportionate costs of American Labor vs. Maquiladoras shops in Juarez were obvious from the eighties, and only one area of US legislation enabling "globalization" in trade. Other disadvantages we have engineered to our own destruction of our American middle class workers include disproportionate costs such as environmental regulations we impose on ourselves, and "safety net" social costs such as social security, medicare, Obamacare, and a thousand other things we have done to shoot ourselves in the foot, so to speak, as a nation. . . . . even importing virtual "slave labor" workers from poor countries for our farms, food processors, meatpackers, and virtually every other labor-intensive production facility you could name.

    We import engineers, medical caregivers, even business "managers" such as hotel/motel nightclerks, auto mechanics, home builders and all kinds of construction workers. . . . all at the expense of what used to be "Union" jobs in large numbers. . . . and our unions have been on the bandwagon every step of the way.

    Unions today don't give a damn about maintaining adequate living wages or the welfare of their workers. The managers of Unions are just as happy to collect dues from slave laborers as anyone else. All they care about is their piece of the pie.

    Which, logically, brings us back to the Hostess bakers' union that tried to, or pretended to, negotiate a stronger pay package. . . . and the corporate managers who all Romney-esque just knew they had a brand and product that could be produced anywhere but didn't care to do it here anymore, who believed they could sell the brand at a nice price even with their declining business in the USA, and probably to some "robber baron" cartelists located across the Rio Grande, who would use our new Brownsville-Chicago superhighway and Mexican trucking to deliver to the US market. . . . and maybe set up a bakery in Shanghai too. So it's really no big deal to us if a few of our capitalists sell off a piece of our economy, pocketing huge bonus/incentives amounting to many times the hoped-for wage/benefits of twenty thousand Americans supposedly because of "union" stupidity or intransigence.

    It's really more of a "what took them so long to do this" story.

    Even for "baked goods".

  5. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    The Hostess products are very long "shelf life", ...
    I don't think so. Less than a week, in most cases.
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

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  6. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
    I don't think so. Less than a week, in most cases.
    Officially the shelf-life is 25 days.

    http://www.snopes.com/food/ingredient/twinkies.asp

  7. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameface View Post
    Officially the shelf-life is 25 days.

    http://www.snopes.com/food/ingredient/twinkies.asp
    I didn't think it would be that long, but there's a reason I'll use "most" in discussions like this.
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

    Any habitual action, such as eating or dressing, may be performed on the appropriate occasion, without any need of thought, and the same seems to be true of a painfully large proportion of our talk. -- Bertrand Russell

  8. #97
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    I've found twinkies in the cupboard that had been there a year, and snarfed them up without noticing any change in smell, flavor, or digestibility. . . . and I used to frequent a Hostess bakery about a block away where they sold stuff pretty cheap with the magic marker streak. . . . at half price or better. . . . . presumably because of the claimed 25 day shelf life. . . . and I've serviced refreshment stands which offer them for sale. . . . and while they do sell, sometimes they are there a while, and nobody ever complained about them being outta date.

    Clearly, the urban legends seem believable because of a whole lot of people with observations like this. . . . lol.

    how about marshmallows. . . and mayonaise. . . . related egg products with long shelf lives. . . . and it's the egg ingredient that has the shortest shelf life in the twinkie. The stamped expiration date probably reflects not the actual shelf life but the market research and sales "shelf life". . . . no reason to extend the date on impulse purchase/highly consumable comfort foods. . . . unless you really just can't sell them that fast. . . . which i don't think is the dominant issue.

    clearly, I favor highly distributed production models anyway, where the stuff we buy is more locally-produced than shipped back and forth across the oceans. Seems like if we cared about energy waste we could put a little more value on goods being produced near their retail outlets. . . .

  9. #98
    Senior Member Red Jazz Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameface View Post
    Obviously they decided it wasn't worth it. It isn't like they're making out at your expense, they're all losing their jobs, too. I'm sorry this is happening to you, but they didn't owe you anything.


    I didn't once say they owed me a ****ing thing. Like I said, there's plenty of blame for both sides but you can't replace Union workers, as Salty suggested, without closing down the company for a minimum of 30 days. So, the strike was the ultimate doom. AND, yes, managment was too eager for it to happen.

  10. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Jazz Fan View Post
    I didn't once say they owed me a ****ing thing. Like I said, there's plenty of blame for both sides but you can't replace Union workers, as Salty suggested, without closing down the company for a minimum of 30 days. So, the strike was the ultimate doom. AND, yes, managment was too eager for it to happen.
    That's BS. Union workers can absolutely be replaced if they go on strike. I don't know who is telling you the incorrect info, but you need to check a different source.

    Here is some reading to get you started:
    http://news.minnesota.publicradio.or...newsroom_day7/

    Some more info on permanently replacing striking workers:
    http://leraweb.org/publications/pers...een-union-atto

    Here is a company that provides replacement workers to companies during strikes and lockouts:
    http://www.pmgroup1.com/planning-ser...spute-planning

    Striking workers absolutely can be replaced, either permanently or temporarily. It's happened plenty of times in the past, even with highly skilled workers. Whoever is telling you that it can't be done is likely a huge part of the problem at hostess. Especially if these guys are as unskilled as you claim.

  11. #100
    the Chief Old D'oh moevillini's Avatar
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    so what will YOU be doing on July 15?


    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hostes...163913503.html

    NEW YORK (AP) — Hostess is betting on a sweet comeback for Twinkies when they return to shelves next month.

    The company that went bankrupt after an acrimonious fight with its unionized workers last year is back up and running under new owners and a leaner structure. It says it plans to have Twinkies and other snack cakes back on shelves starting July 15.

    Based on the outpouring of nostalgia sparked by its demise, Hostess is expecting a blockbuster return next month for Twinkies and other sugary treats, such as CupCakes and Donettes. The company says the cakes will taste the same but that the boxes will now bear the tag line "The Sweetest Comeback In The History Of Ever."

    "A lot of impostor products have come to the market while Hostess has been off the shelves," says Daren Metropoulos, a principal of the investment firm Metropoulos & Co., which teamed up with Apollo Global Management to buy a variety of Hostess snacks.


    posted in "Golden Twinkie" in honor of this upcoming special event
    a blast from the past...
    http://www.freepennystockalerts.com/

  12. #101
    Forům Dark Lord E.J. Wells's Avatar
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    This pleases me. I talked to Mrs. Trout about it yesterday as we were slaughtering Catfish over at Utah Lake, and watching my little girl grimace when she bit into one of the "other" companies that tried to take over and produce "cupcakes". I haven't had a convenience store style "baked good" since Hostess went bye-bye, and the look on my daughters face is exactly why. Why bother? I know it won't be as good, and in fact, will probably be gross. I'm not a huge fan of Hostess, but a pack of Twinkies in the middle of a 14 hour fishing day o'death, or a 2-pack of Cupcakes with a tall glass of ice cold milk is tough to beat.
    http://mysteryoftheinquity.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/goodvsevil2.jpg

  13. #102
    Senior Member The Thriller's Avatar
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    I think it's funny how Hostess and their... What?.... 12 CEOs in 10 years, run the company into the ground, rip off millions in compensation and bonuses, and then blame the union for everything.

    Hopefully this new Hostess has competent leadership who desires long-term stability and profit rather than using the company for a quickie...
    Lakers Suck.

  14. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scat View Post
    Fixed.
    This is just pathetically sad. Scat's entire world-view is informed by a simplistic, highly reductionist knee jerk political ideology that explains precious little with any degree of accuracy of the complex, dynamic world around us.

    Might I suggest that you try thinking outside your teeny tiny little box now and then? It really can be an exhilarating experience.

  15. #104
    Senior Member Scat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy eat jazz View Post
    This is just pathetically sad. Scat's entire world-view is informed by a simplistic, highly reductionist knee jerk political ideology that explains precious little with any degree of accuracy of the complex, dynamic world around us.

    Might I suggest that you try thinking outside your teeny tiny little box now and then? It really can be an exhilarating experience.
    Not everyone has as big a box as you.

  16. #105
    Senior Member The Thriller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scat View Post
    Not everyone has as big a box as you.
    So I've been told...
    Lakers Suck.

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