Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 146
  1. #91
    In pursuit of #9 PKM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    46,464
    Total Rep Points
    46779
    Rep Adjustment Power
    100
    Quote Originally Posted by JazzSpazz View Post
    Not too much light though, you know... moderation.
    lol
    #dumptruckin

  2. #92
    Senior Member Duck Rodgers's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Provo
    Posts
    5,102
    Total Rep Points
    6399
    Rep Adjustment Power
    38
    Quote Originally Posted by Scat View Post
    Fast forward, my wife and I have three kids while in SoCal and decide to move back to Utah so the kids can be around family growing up. We're trying to raise them to be open and receptive to all races and religions. My oldest daughter was 7. She finds very quickly that she's the outsider even though she's Mormon and active. During Sunday School she mentions having gone to a Methodist service when she lived in SoCal and gets a 10 minute scolding from her teacher about wandering from the path of righteousness. She also finds that when she's at church or church activities she's treated well but the next day at school she's the outcast. Of course she makes friends at school with kids that are not of the faith. This only hastens her expulsion. By the time she's 12 she's done with Mormon kids. When called into the Bishop's office to find out why she's not attending church she flat out tells him that she feels unwelcome and that the other kids in the ward treat her poorly, including the bishop's daughter. Well, that gets me a call into the Bishop's office about my daughter's poor attitude. This was the beginning of the end of my being active. The Bishop couldn't see that his kid as well as others in the ward were being exclusive and highly judgmental, just that my daughter was the problem and that I wasn't doing a good job of raising her.
    How did she get outcast at age 7? Are there even church activities at that age outside of Cub Scouts? It doesn't seem like her getting rebuked by a teacher in church at that age would be meaningful at all to her peers, especially since most of them at her school wouldn't even be in your ward.

    All I know is that in my ward growing we pretty much divided off just like we did at school. There were two cute girls in my ward that I became friends with, and I barely said a word to any of the rest because I wasn't attracted to them. And there were 4 or 5 guys that liked to play ball and were my friends, and the rest of the guys were just kind of there. Granted, I was an arrogant jerk growing up(still working on subduing that part of me in fact) and didn't care about being nice, but that's the way it worked even when you would go to a stake youth activity too. I think people are sometimes guilty of pinpointing the church structure or the church culture as the source of a problem, when it probably was just some mean kids being exclusive for reasons other than anything to do with church.
    In God, whose word I praise, in the LORD, whose word I praise, in God I trust and am not afraid. What can man do to me?

  3. #93
    Moderator Stoked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Southern Utah
    Posts
    20,862
    Total Rep Points
    24747
    Rep Adjustment Power
    96
    Quote Originally Posted by Duck Rodgers View Post
    How did she get outcast at age 7? Are there even church activities at that age outside of Cub Scouts? It doesn't seem like her getting rebuked by a teacher in church at that age would be meaningful at all to her peers, especially since most of them at her school wouldn't even be in your ward.

    All I know is that in my ward growing we pretty much divided off just like we did at school. There were two cute girls in my ward that I became friends with, and I barely said a word to any of the rest because I wasn't attracted to them. And there were 4 or 5 guys that liked to play ball and were my friends, and the rest of the guys were just kind of there. Granted, I was an arrogant jerk growing up(still working on subduing that part of me in fact) and didn't care about being nice, but that's the way it worked even when you would go to a stake youth activity too. I think people are sometimes guilty of pinpointing the church structure or the church culture as the source of a problem, when it probably was just some mean kids being exclusive for reasons other than anything to do with church.
    I have been in wards where "Primary" is highly active.

    Scat if your story is true, and I have no reason to believe otherwise, than I hope you stood up for your daughter and put the Bishop in his place. He is your spiritual advisor, not your father.
    #BelieveInLindsey

  4. #94
    Senior Member Duck Rodgers's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Provo
    Posts
    5,102
    Total Rep Points
    6399
    Rep Adjustment Power
    38
    Well yeah, I'm talking things extant to church. I guess I do remember primary activity days. You go there on a Saturday morning once a month, sing a few songs, munch some doughnuts down, maybe do a service project, and that was that. It's still hard for me to imagine grouping off at that age especially based on religiosity.
    In God, whose word I praise, in the LORD, whose word I praise, in God I trust and am not afraid. What can man do to me?

  5. #95
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    6,829
    Total Rep Points
    9783
    Rep Adjustment Power
    48
    People can be mean, thoughtless, selfish, and know it alls.

    I like wheat and should eat less meat... more grains.

    Full circle.
    TREYBOT

  6.  

     

  7. #96
    Senior Member CONAN's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Draper
    Posts
    2,175
    Total Rep Points
    1010
    Rep Adjustment Power
    19
    If I let my testimony be shaken by fellow LDS people being rude and/or behaving badly I woulda been outta the Church a long time ago.
    BYU 1984 National Champs.

  8. #97
    Moderator Stoked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Southern Utah
    Posts
    20,862
    Total Rep Points
    24747
    Rep Adjustment Power
    96
    Quote Originally Posted by CONAN View Post
    If I let my testimony be shaken by fellow LDS people being rude and/or behaving badly I woulda been outta the Church a long time ago.
    Each of us is different and the problems we deal with are very different. We all have strengths and weaknesses.
    #BelieveInLindsey

  9. #98
    Senior Member CONAN's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Draper
    Posts
    2,175
    Total Rep Points
    1010
    Rep Adjustment Power
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by Stoked View Post
    Each of us is different and the problems we deal with are very different. We all have strengths and weaknesses.
    No doubt.
    BYU 1984 National Champs.

  10. #99
    world's worst Bronco70's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    In the backseat
    Posts
    4,431
    Total Rep Points
    9916
    Rep Adjustment Power
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by CONAN View Post
    If I let my testimony be shaken by fellow LDS people being rude and/or behaving badly I woulda been outta the Church a long time ago.
    I hesitate to even say this, because it is a broad generalization, but I've always felt that people who fall away from the church because another member "offended" them were probably looking for an reason to leave anyway. It seems like it has to be deeper than getting your feelings hurt. If the church isn't right for you, I can respect that. But be honest about it.

  11. #100
    Moderator Stoked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Southern Utah
    Posts
    20,862
    Total Rep Points
    24747
    Rep Adjustment Power
    96
    Quote Originally Posted by Duck Rodgers View Post
    Well yeah, I'm talking things extant to church. I guess I do remember primary activity days. You go there on a Saturday morning once a month, sing a few songs, munch some doughnuts down, maybe do a service project, and that was that. It's still hard for me to imagine grouping off at that age especially based on religiosity.
    I have been in wards where the Primary set things up based on the Elders Quorum and Relief Society. They would plan Primary activities for the parents that brought their kids to meetings or what not. Service projects, Trunk or Treat, Christmas prgram, Easter Program, Thanksgiving dinner, 4th of July pot luck lunch...all had Primary activites set up.
    #BelieveInLindsey

  12. #101
    Moderator Stoked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Southern Utah
    Posts
    20,862
    Total Rep Points
    24747
    Rep Adjustment Power
    96
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco70 View Post
    I hesitate to even say this, because it is a broad generalization, but I've always felt that people who fall away from the church because another member "offended" them were probably looking for an reason to leave anyway. It seems like it has to be deeper than getting your feelings hurt. If the church isn't right for you, I can respect that. But be honest about it.
    I can see some of the cases being for that reason. However I can promise you it is not all.
    #BelieveInLindsey

  13. #102
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,103
    Total Rep Points
    2181
    Rep Adjustment Power
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco70 View Post
    I hesitate to even say this, because it is a broad generalization, but I've always felt that people who fall away from the church because another member "offended" them were probably looking for an reason to leave anyway. It seems like it has to be deeper than getting your feelings hurt. If the church isn't right for you, I can respect that. But be honest about it.
    Engage Rant Mode

    Yes, let's be honest about it. It is a VERY VERY BROAD generalization. People do all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons, many, if not most, of which may not be reasons why you'd do something. You're projecting motives onto other people based how YOU see things. And, as you surely must know, most people see things differently than you do.

    As a former LDS (nearly 4 decades active membership in Church), and who left for what I believe to be very valid reasons (over which I stewed and stewed for years before making the break), few things irritate me more than when others try to explain away and minimize my decision by offering some trite cliche (e.g., wanted to sin, didn't really have a testimony, was proud/arrogant, was disobedient, etc., etc.). It was, in my case, a painful and wrenching decision, but also the right one. And having previously spent much time embedded in the ExMo social network (no longer, I grew tired of it many years ago), I can tell you that people's departure stories are as varied as the people who decide to leave.

    Although I will say that after hearing a number of these stories, certain common broad themes do emerge, but they apply on a case by case basis and not universally.

    Disengage Rant Mode

    Nothing against you Bronco. I've just got writer's block today, so I'm in a grumpy mood.

  14. #103
    Senior Member infection's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,229
    Total Rep Points
    6500
    Rep Adjustment Power
    37
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy eat jazz View Post
    Engage Rant Mode

    Yes, let's be honest about it. It is a VERY VERY BROAD generalization. People do all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons, many, if not most, of which may not be reasons why you'd do something. You're projecting motives onto other people based how YOU see things. And, as you surely must know, most people see things differently than you do.

    As a former LDS (nearly 4 decades active membership in Church), and who left for what I believe to be very valid reasons (over which I stewed and stewed for years before making the break), few things irritate me more than when others try to explain away and minimize my decision by offering some trite cliche (e.g., wanted to sin, didn't really have a testimony, was proud/arrogant, was disobedient, etc., etc.). It was, in my case, a painful and wrenching decision, but also the right one. And having previously spent much time embedded in the ExMo social network (no longer, I grew tired of it many years ago), I can tell you that people's departure stories are as varied as the people who decide to leave.

    Although I will say that after hearing a number of these stories, certain common broad themes do emerge, but they apply on a case by case basis and not universally.

    Disengage Rant Mode

    Nothing against you Bronco. I've just got writer's block today, so I'm in a grumpy mood.
    JEJ, in Bronco's defense he was referring to a specific group of people who leave the church (and qualified it with a criterion) and wasn't making a statement on all who leave the church, as I'm assuming by what you wrote that the reasons you left don't pertain to the criterion of the group he was addressing.

  15. #104
    world's worst Bronco70's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    In the backseat
    Posts
    4,431
    Total Rep Points
    9916
    Rep Adjustment Power
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by Stoked View Post
    I can see some of the cases being for that reason. However I can promise you it is not all.
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy eat jazz View Post
    Nothing against you Bronco. I've just got writer's block today, so I'm in a grumpy mood.
    No offense would be taken, on my end. I truly do appreciate the perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by infection View Post
    JEJ, in Bronco's defense he was referring to a specific group of people who leave the church (and qualified it with a criterion) and wasn't making a statement on all who leave the church, as I'm assuming by what you wrote that the reasons you left don't pertain to the criterion of the group he was addressing.
    Spot on, infection. People leave the church all the time, for various reasons. Usually, it's probably a combination of things. I can respect that. I believe you should follow your heart, and if you do your due diligence, and your heart tells you it isn't right, you should listen. I certainly don't believe that everyone who leaves is bad, and/or did so for the wrong reasons. But I think there is a segment (perhaps small) of the disaffected that don't want to admit the real reasons for leaving, so they claim offense. These are the kind of people that, basically, believe, but just don't want to put in the effort. Offense is an easy out. I know people like this. But again, this doesn't apply to everyone who has left...

    Edit: I think, a lot of the time, it makes it easier to justify your decision to friends and family, and possibly soften their judgments.

  16. #105
    Admininstrator colton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    6,233
    Total Rep Points
    10902
    Rep Adjustment Power
    100
    Quote Originally Posted by Scat View Post
    I have a couple of different perspectives.

    I grew up in S. Jordan. Back then it was a very rural, farming community... and 99.9% LDS. As a kid I had exactly zero exposure to any influence that wasn't LDS. In my ward there was maybe 3 families that weren't active. They were Mormon, just not active. Guess what? My friends and I had little to do with them but conversely, they had little to do with us. They avoided us just as much as we avoided them. There wasn't any bad blood between us, it's just the way it was.

    Fast forward to when I get married. My wife and I move to California. What an eye opener. My first job there I worked with the most eclectic group of people you could ever assemble. There was Zach from Lebanon (Lebanese food is wonderful by the way). David and Sal from Iran. Lena from Israel. Tina, the Catholic from Arkansas. Ruth, a prototypical Hollywood Jewish princess. A woman from Singapore (I forget her name). And me, the very white Utah Mormon boy. There was lot's of good natured ribbing, lot's of discussions about political and religious differences, but I learned more in that one year than I had in the 23 years prior to that.

    In California I also learned that Utah Mormons ARE very different. Being Mormon in SoCal was much more laid back. In Utah there was/is much more pressure to be a "good Mormon"

    Fast forward, my wife and I have three kids while in SoCal and decide to move back to Utah so the kids can be around family growing up. We're trying to raise them to be open and receptive to all races and religions. My oldest daughter was 7. She finds very quickly that she's the outsider even though she's Mormon and active. During Sunday School she mentions having gone to a Methodist service when she lived in SoCal and gets a 10 minute scolding from her teacher about wandering from the path of righteousness. She also finds that when she's at church or church activities she's treated well but the next day at school she's the outcast. Of course she makes friends at school with kids that are not of the faith. This only hastens her expulsion. By the time she's 12 she's done with Mormon kids. When called into the Bishop's office to find out why she's not attending church she flat out tells him that she feels unwelcome and that the other kids in the ward treat her poorly, including the bishop's daughter. Well, that gets me a call into the Bishop's office about my daughter's poor attitude. This was the beginning of the end of my being active. The Bishop couldn't see that his kid as well as others in the ward were being exclusive and highly judgmental, just that my daughter was the problem and that I wasn't doing a good job of raising her.

    I'm still receptive to the doctrine and teachings of the LDS faith, it's just many of the people that I can't stand. If more people were like Bronco and Zulu it would serve the church tremendously.
    Scat, sorry to hear that. I hope you'll find your way back one of these days.

    If it helps, I've been to Jewish, Catholic, Presbyterian, Methodist, and several non-denominational services throughout my life, all the while being an active LDS member. In fact on Thursday I'm taking my family to a nonLDS church to help the homeless on Thanksgiving for a few hours. I've never felt ostracized for any of that; in fact, most of the time my fellow LDS members have thought that reaching out like that is a good thing. So, hopefully you and your family were just the victim of some "near-sighted" individuals who don't represent the larger church well.
    "Giving to the poor is an essential part of Christian morality. I do not believe one can settle how much we ought to give. Im afraid the only safe rule is to give more than we can spare... If our charities do not at all pinch or hamper us, I should say they are too small. There ought to be things that wed like to do but cannot do because our charitable expenditure excludes them." --C.S. Lewis
    :-)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •