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  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution 9 View Post
    If the preseason and summer league don't matter then why play them. Why the coaches say they matter?


    "alec is good. nobody's questioning that. i think he's a very good player and i hope he's part of a very bright future for the jazz."

    Then you have to see the importance of developing a player in his second year, and why not giving him any time is detrimental. Giving Foye all the time is Corbins plan, and it will have an impact on Burks. The bottom line is that what we are doing is not good for the future of Burks with the Utah Jazz. If playing Foye is that important to you ok, but that is what is happening here.
    you have it backwards though. you don't develop a guy by giving him minutes he hasn't earned. you help him develop and THEN he gets minutes. burks had a 4-game stretch to show he was ready to make a positive difference and he didn't. again, that's fine. he's young, he's inconsistent, he'll get more shots and HE WILL GET BETTER. right now, he has no beef based on the way he has performed, and he understands that. you should, too.
    check out the jazzbros.com blog for more on the jazz.

  2. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by YB85 View Post
    I'll go ahead and be the one who is questioning that. Alec has talent, but is he good? That remains to be seen. I know that Alec is the darling of the board and everyone, including myself, badly wants him to be be a star. But until Alec learns the nuances of the game, such as passing and shot selection, he's always going to be a questionable player. He should be looking at Carroll and understanding that busting his ass and taking the shot only when it is presented are what will get him floor time. Instead, he pouts when a shot doesn't go in and then forces the next shot. I hope he figures it out soon and becomes a quality player, but if he doesn't, just count him as another guard the Jazz took a gamble on that didn't pan out and move on to the next player.


    that bolded part is my main thesis. carroll got minutes because he absolutely forced corbin to play him in ways that had nothing to do with his talent level or ability to put the ball in the hoop. if burks did the same thing, we wouldn't be whining about his minutes.
    check out the jazzbros.com blog for more on the jazz.

  3. #333
    His Premiumness Siro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theNBAnerd View Post
    you have it backwards though. you don't develop a guy by giving him minutes he hasn't earned. you help him develop and THEN he gets minutes. burks had a 4-game stretch to show he was ready to make a positive difference and he didn't. again, that's fine. he's young, he's inconsistent, he'll get more shots and HE WILL GET BETTER. right now, he has no beef based on the way he has performed, and he understands that. you should, too.

    You only give a player competitive game experience once he proves he has the experience to perform in competitive games. I knew Joseph Heller wasn't the best choice for authoring NBA rules.
    Last edited by Siro; 11-21-2012 at 05:32 PM.

  4. #334
    Senior Member jope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theNBAnerd View Post
    show me one stretch of basketball where foye played seven minutes without a point, assist, rebound, steal or block and this point will be valid. (hint: you won't find any.)
    11-1-2006
    11-10-2009
    2-6-2012
    not to mention several games where he went 10+ mins with 0's in all categories but 1 (including many games of 0 pts, 1 rebound, 0's across the rest of the board)

    this list is just games that he played about 7 mins with nothing. it doesnt even count games in which 7 minute stretches of no production occur. almost every player in the league experiences these lull's at least once in a while... just because we've caught alec in one doesnt mean he shouldnt play. we have too much invested in the kids to not play them.

  5. #335
    Senior Member Jazz4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theNBAnerd View Post
    you have it backwards though. you don't develop a guy by giving him minutes he hasn't earned. you help him develop and THEN he gets minutes. burks had a 4-game stretch to show he was ready to make a positive difference and he didn't. again, that's fine. he's young, he's inconsistent, he'll get more shots and HE WILL GET BETTER. right now, he has no beef based on the way he has performed, and he understands that. you should, too.
    Uh, no, just no. Burks has only had 1 game over 15 minutes this year, which is the minimum time needed to get into the flow and make a contribution. But besides that fact, when you draft a player very young like Burks its understood he will have very bad stretches. If you are not going to let him play through them, you either draft seniors or trade the pick. To do otherwise would be piss poor management of resources. Burks put in the time all summer at P3, improved his vertical by several inches, was shooting lights out in preseason, and has only been given one game over 15 minutes. Granted Carroll has been playing great lately, but wasn't early on.

  6. #336
    Senior Member NUMBERICA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by candrew View Post
    The final 25 games of last season Burks averaged about 18mpg, and scored about 8+ points per game at about a 42% clip. Decent numbers for a rookie - all while The Jazz were playing their best basketball of the season.

    He played in the Summer League - which he didn't have to do (see CJ Miles)

    Came to camp prepared. Obviously worked on his jumper. Had a solid preseason.

    And then gets rewarded with 3 straight DNP's over a journeyman failed PG who at best is a one-dimensional player who started the preseason missing his first 17 shots.

    Any way you want to slice it - that's a mind **** for a 22 year old kid who has been "the man" everywhere he's been up until this point.

    Is it Burks' job to get over it? Absolutely. But don't tell me this guy "HAS. NOT. EARNED. IT"
    Well that should pretty much settle it.
    #loseeveryremaininggame

  7. #337
    His Premiumness Siro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz4ever View Post
    Uh, no, just no. Burks has only had 1 game over 15 minutes this year, which is the minimum time needed to get into the flow and make a contribution. But besides that fact, when you draft a player very young like Burks its understood he will have very bad stretches. If you are not going to let him play through them, you either draft seniors or trade the pick. Burks put in the time all summer at P3, improved his vertical by several inches, was shooting lights out in preseason, and has only been given one game over 15 minutes. Granted Caroll has been playing great lately, but wasn't early on.
    He was given more than 15 minutes out of position. He was expected to run an offense from a position he's never played competitively, with players he has no chemistry with. On top of that, he now plays like a scared puppy, afraid to do one of the few things he does well as not to disrupt the offense (apparently). Or did he actually get 15+ minutes as a SG? I don't remember that.

  8. #338
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjunior View Post
    Well, at least it's Foye and not Braille who takes minutes from Burks. That's an improvement over last year.
    Agree 100% with this.
    repped

  9. #339
    Moderator Revolution 9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theNBAnerd View Post
    you have it backwards though. you don't develop a guy by giving him minutes he hasn't earned. you help him develop and THEN he gets minutes. burks had a 4-game stretch to show he was ready to make a positive difference and he didn't. again, that's fine. he's young, he's inconsistent, he'll get more shots and HE WILL GET BETTER. right now, he has no beef based on the way he has performed, and he understands that. you should, too.

    He has earned the right to play, and that is where we disagree. He showed us last year he can play, has talent, and belongs in this league. You say summer league, and pre-season means nothing. Why do coaches always say its important in a players development. Burks exceeded expectations, and it means zero? Really?

    What more does he have to prove? He simply hasn't got any consistent time this year?


    "he's inconsistent," well that describes Foye to a tee.
    "Hayward can be a #1?"......"Maybe if he goes down to Fort Wayne...DLeague" -ESPN

  10. #340
    Senior Member Darkwing Duck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution 9 View Post
    Burks exceeded expectations, and it means zero? Really?
    Exceeded expectations? He hero balled well against summer league players.


    Quote Originally Posted by negative reputation giver
    youre inquires are tiresome

  11. #341
    Moderator Revolution 9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkwing Duck View Post
    Exceeded expectations? He hero balled well against summer league players.
    You don't think he met expectations in summer league?
    "Hayward can be a #1?"......"Maybe if he goes down to Fort Wayne...DLeague" -ESPN

  12. #342
    Senior Member Darkwing Duck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution 9 View Post
    You don't think he met expectations in summer league?
    What were those expectations?


    Quote Originally Posted by negative reputation giver
    youre inquires are tiresome

  13. #343
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkwing Duck View Post
    Exceeded expectations? He hero balled well against summer league players.
    What did you expect of him in summer league? to average a triple double in 25 minutes a game?

    He went out and dominated and was probably the best player in orlando. And he didn't just play hero ball, he also passed the ball ok and rebounded the ball exceptionally.

  14. #344
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    "Jazz guard Alec Burks continued to make his case for an increased role next season by putting up 22 points, seven rebounds and five assists to bring his Summer League scoring average to 19.5 a game"

    "Second-year guard Alec Burks stole the show with a 31-point performance in just 29 minutes of play. A minor contributor for the Jazz last year, Burks will force his way into the lineup with more efforts like this one."

    Those were a couple of summaries of games in the orlando summer league

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  16. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by theNBAnerd View Post
    you have it backwards though. you don't develop a guy by giving him minutes he hasn't earned. you help him develop and THEN he gets minutes. burks had a 4-game stretch to show he was ready to make a positive difference and he didn't. again, that's fine. he's young, he's inconsistent, he'll get more shots and HE WILL GET BETTER. right now, he has no beef based on the way he has performed, and he understands that. you should, too.
    The "Burks got 4 games to show what he can do" narrative is laughable and you know it. He played 7,9,14, and 10 minutes in that grand showcase. I can put up 4 game stretches of all our players who stunk in 4 game stretches.

    Burks "problem" is that he doesn't fit in a 2nd unit that has to include Tinsley and Foye. He hasn't played his way out of a job. The Jazz have picked Foye to do the only job he can do. The question goes back to why the Jazz added Foye at all. It's not like he signed to compete for the backup 2. So what exactly was the plan for Burks all along?

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