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  1. #1
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    Does Burks have a chance to be a more complete player?

    Serious question. We know that as of now Burks is very good at getting to the rim and scoring and quite bad at making a jump shot. Shooting guards in the NBA are usually the guys who can create their shot, score at the rim AND hit the jumper (most of them), or someone who can hit the open threes/ long twos and be a great defender (Bowen, Sefolosha). Burks in his first season made 29% of his jumpers. He did not much play this season, but so far there was nothing that indicated that his ability to make a jump shot improved (the current rate is 10%).

    Out of the recent palyers drafted by the Jazz Ronnie Brewer had a similar profile - very good at scoring at the rim, with similarly bad stats on jumpers (28% during his rookie year) - but he really improved in his second year, to 39%. Brewer was also a way-above-the-average defender. Nevertheless, the Jazz traded him and now he is playing for a vet's minimum.

    I know that many bigs come in the league raw and develop later, but I thought that it was different for guards. So, the question is, how often does it happen that SGs that come in the league with the ability to drive/cut to the rim, but without a jumper, develop the ability to be decent/good from the distance? How long does it usually take? Are there any good examples?

  2. #2
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    With playing time, yes he has a chance to be a more complete player.
    Without playing time, not so much.

    Burks is quite a good rebounder for his position already, and as far as his shooting goes, from what i saw in pre-season he could be a good shooter if he could get playing time. (something like 70% from 3 in pre-season)

    Basically we will only be able to find out the answer to your question if corbin will put him on the court for some decent minutes on a regular basis.

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    Since day 1 I have believed he has the physical tools to be very good. I have always had concerns whether he has it between the ears. Like fishon said, we won't know until he's getting 15 minutes or so per game.. not sure we'll ever see that in a Jazz uni.
    #dumptruckin

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    Senior Member TheSilencer1313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doubledribble View Post
    Serious question. We know that as of now Burks is very good at getting to the rim and scoring and quite bad at making a jump shot. Shooting guards in the NBA are usually the guys who can create their shot, score at the rim AND hit the jumper (most of them), or someone who can hit the open threes/ long twos and be a great defender (Bowen, Sefolosha). Burks in his first season made 29% of his jumpers. He did not much play this season, but so far there was nothing that indicated that his ability to make a jump shot improved (the current rate is 10%).

    Out of the recent palyers drafted by the Jazz Ronnie Brewer had a similar profile - very good at scoring at the rim, with similarly bad stats on jumpers (28% during his rookie year) - but he really improved in his second year, to 39%. Brewer was also a way-above-the-average defender. Nevertheless, the Jazz traded him and now he is playing for a vet's minimum.

    I know that many bigs come in the league raw and develop later, but I thought that it was different for guards. So, the question is, how often does it happen that SGs that come in the league with the ability to drive/cut to the rim, but without a jumper, develop the ability to be decent/good from the distance? How long does it usually take? Are there any good examples?
    For one thing Brewer was just the expendable piece of a really good offensive team the Jazz used to have, and that trade just had to be made at the time for money reasons.

    You're not going to see Kobe backing off of Burks the same way you used to see him backing off of Brewer in the playoffs a few years ago. Now Burks isn't a GREAT shooter, but I'd say he's at least an average one, and he shot very well through summer league and the pre-season.
    The next part is consistant playing time, (which is obvious he's never going to get barring a significant trade) which most players need to get a rhythm going throughout a season.

    I think two really great examples would be Rudy Gay and Dwayne Wade. Burks has the ability to create his own shot off of the dribble, and even isolation play like Wade and over time would be able to demand double teams I believe. Although not quite as athletic as Wade, that's where my Rudy Gay comparison comes in.

    Burks shot at just about the same clip that Gay shot the ball in his second year, during summer league and the pre-season. And although not as long and tall as Gay, I think they are similar players athletically and maturity wise. Now obviously most are going to shrug off Burks summer league and pre-season performances, considering they were against the leagues scrubs.
    But what the hell else do we have to judge Burks by while he rots on the bench??
    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Senior Member Eenie-Meenie's Avatar
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    Burks is longer than Wade and may even be quicker, though probably not as good a handle. So, yes, he certainly has the potential. Why the Jazz can't see that, is beyond me. They give Kanter all the time in the world and yet Burks who in my opinion has greater potential is getting nothing.

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    Senior Member orangello's Avatar
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    This is a thought that I have had since the beginning of the season. Does Burks just talk a big game? I'm always hearing that him always being overlooked has motivated him to be better, but has the money corrupted him and he just keeps saying that because he wants everyone to keep believing in him? It has been working for me but now I am starting to question it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    So I was very mad about the game, but I wasn't going to vent here, because you guys all feel the same way. However, Ty's postgame interview got my blood boiling. On why he let Trey and Gordon play while having bad games, "You gotta let them battle through it because that's what you gotta do." Really are you kidding me. You have to balls to say that when you pulled Alec after 16 minutes against LAC and Kanter got 19 minutes toinght?

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    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eenie-Meenie View Post
    Burks is longer than Wade and may even be quicker, though probably not as good a handle. So, yes, he certainly has the potential. Why the Jazz can't see that, is beyond me. They give Kanter all the time in the world and yet Burks who in my opinion has greater potential is getting nothing.
    And kanter is getting minutes even though we have millsap, al, and favors on the team, meanwhile burks cant get minutes because we have hayward and rand foye...... just retarded.

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    Senior Member Thee jazz fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
    And kanter is getting minutes even though we have millsap, al, and favors on the team, meanwhile burks cant get minutes because we have hayward and rand foye...... just retarded.
    Millsap is a pf only, with Favors primarily backing him up, which leaves Kanter as the primary backup to Al.

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    Senior Member Thee jazz fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thee jazz fan View Post
    Millsap is a pf only, with Favors primarily backing him up, which leaves Kanter as the primary backup to Al.
    Foye is the primary backup to Hayward, leaving Burks on the outside looking in.

  10. #10
    Senior Member TheSilencer1313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangello View Post
    This is a thought that I have had since the beginning of the season. Does Burks just talk a big game? I'm always hearing that him always being overlooked has motivated him to be better, but has the money corrupted him and he just keeps saying that because he wants everyone to keep believing in him? It has been working for me but now I am starting to question it.
    There's no way that a rookie that played as well as he did is worse all-around than Randy Foye. But how would us lowly fans ever know?
    We never get to see the kid play to find out.
    I remember the Jazz burying DeShawn Stevenson early in his career as well, and he's still a decent player in his mid-30's.
    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered." - Thomas Jefferson

  11. #11
    In pursuit of #9 PKM's Avatar
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    It's just safe coaching.. that's all.
    #dumptruckin

  12. #12
    Senior Member Eenie-Meenie's Avatar
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    Stupid coaching, you mean, which is why Ty is not going to get anywhere if he continues to play it safe.

  13. #13
    In pursuit of #9 PKM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eenie-Meenie View Post
    Stupid coaching, you mean, which is why Ty is not going to get anywhere if he continues to play it safe.
    tomato potato
    #dumptruckin

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSilencer1313 View Post
    For one thing Brewer was just the expendable piece of a really good offensive team the Jazz used to have, and that trade just had to be made at the time for money reasons...
    I think two really great examples would be Rudy Gay and Dwayne Wade. Burks has the ability to create his own shot off of the dribble, and even isolation play like Wade and over time would be able to demand double teams I believe. Although not quite as athletic as Wade, that's where my Rudy Gay comparison comes in.
    I am not sure that Wade and Gay are good comparisons for Burks. Both of them shot the jumper much better than Burks as rookies, at 35% and 36%, respectively. Brewer so far was the only player I found who had similar shooting stats to Burks. And regardless of the motives for his trade from the Jazz all he could get this year was a vet's minimum...

    So, my question is "Are there any other examples of SGs who shot below 30% on jumpers in their rookie year besides Brewer?" How much did they improve? Anybody knows?

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  16. #15
    Senior Member Cy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eenie-Meenie View Post
    Burks is longer than Wade and may even be quicker, though probably not as good a handle. So, yes, he certainly has the potential. Why the Jazz can't see that, is beyond me. They give Kanter all the time in the world and yet Burks who in my opinion has greater potential is getting nothing.
    He also has 1/10th the strength of Wade.

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