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  1. #1
    Admininstrator colton's Avatar
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    "Wins produced" stat - info after 11 games

    Interesting article that I don't think has been discussed here yet. Data is from just before the Houston game.

    http://www.slcdunk.com/2012/11/19/36...nto-the-season

    Here's the summary:
    * First of all remember that while 11 games is enough to make some reasonable claims about what has happened thus far, it's not nearly enough to accurately predict what will happen the rest of the season. Players regularly have 15-game stretches that are far better or far worse than their norms.
    * Out of the players who are in the regular rotation (sorry Jeremy and DeMarre), the team has only four players who have performed above average to date: Millsap, Hayward, Marvin, and Favors.
    * Al currently leads the NBA in total rebounds (and is 4th per game) ... when a stat accused of overvaluing rebounds lists Al as slightly below average right now, that's indicative of a guy who has performed below expectations.
    * Randy Foye has been quite bad so far. We don't notice because of a couple of good scoring nights (Yay Points!). But overall, yikes — and Hollinger agrees (11.3 PER). Basically Randy has done well at spot-up 3's and FT's. He is really bad at 2's, rarely rebounds, rarely gets to the line, gets few assists, all while fouling a ton ... basically he does nothing well except shoot spot-up 3's and hit FT's. The most concerning thing to me is that this performance falls into the range of his career. Even more concerning than this, he has actually played more than Derrick Favors. Which is important because ...
    * Derrick Favors has been the most productive player yet ranks 8th in minutes played. Teams will never reach their potential unless its most productive players play the most minutes. Either other bigs need to really step up or Favors needs to take their spot.
    * Our PG situation is really bad. We'll get to Mo in a bit, but our backup PG's have been primarily Tinsley with a bit of Foye. Egads. No wonder our offense has rarely had any flow.
    * Mo has been slightly below average (like Foye, this is largely unnoticed because of a couple of noticeable hot spells). This is also, unfortunately, consistent with his career norms.
    * Kanter has been struggling a lot. This surprises nobody. I would be going crazy with his playing time if he was performing like he was last year. But he hasn't yet. So I am very happy with his playing time ... enough to work through problems and improve if he's got it in him, but at the bottom of the regular rotation.
    * DeMarre (in limited time) has been good. A huge chunk of this is shooting 12% higher than his career average. So I wouldn't bet my house that it will last. At the same time, hopefully he can continue to be a decent NBA player... something I have regularly questioned and would love to eat crow about.
    I knew Foye had played a lot but I was shocked to see he's gotten more minutes than Favors. I checked the stats after the Houston game--yep, still true, Foye has more minutes than Favors (barely, but still!).
    "Strive not with a man without cause, if he have done thee no harm... The wise shall inherit glory: but shame shall be the promotion of fools." -Prov. 3:30, 35
    :-)

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    Good post. Thanks Colton.

    Even more reassuring news beyond our very eyes at how good Favors is for this team.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Cy's Avatar
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    I feel like Foye has given the Jazz big boost with a ton of key shots though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Bagadonuts View Post
    I'm the site's biggest moron.

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    Moderator Stoked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrone Torbin View Post
    I feel like Foye has given the Jazz big boost with a ton of key shots though.
    I tend to agree. He has hit some big shots when it has counted.
    #BelieveInLindsey #BelieveInSnyder

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    Senior Member Zulu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrone Torbin View Post
    I feel like Foye has given the Jazz big boost with a ton of key shots though.
    True.... But that is completely shocking that he has more minutes than favors!!

    I don't think the big line up is working to start games, I see Milsap coming of the bench soon!!

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    Moderator Revolution 9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrone Torbin View Post
    I feel like Foye has given the Jazz big boost with a ton of key shots though.
    Do they cover up for all the poor defense, and what little else he gives us? I don't have a problem with Foye playing. He could be a valuable asset
    if used correctly. He's not a starter, and not a guy who should be playing more than a guy like Favors, Burks, or Hayward.

    Being him in as instant offense, let him finish games because he can hit big shots, but don't try and make him a cornerstone of this team.
    We can disagree about religion. We can disagree about politics. but if you like the first three prequels of Star Wars just go ahead an unfriend me right now.

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    Foye would be great for 14-18 minutes a night as an assassin much like the Spurs have used Bonner and others over the years. Based on how bad his defense is, that time would probably be best against backups and/or with Favors on the court.

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    Moderator Revolution 9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth View Post
    Foye would be great for 14-18 minutes a night as an assassin much like the Spurs have used Bonner and others over the years. Based on how bad his defense is, that time would probably be best against backups and/or with Favors on the court.

    Couldn't agree more. This is exactly how he would help us the most. A good 3 pt assassin on the bench.
    I wish Corbin saw it this way.
    We can disagree about religion. We can disagree about politics. but if you like the first three prequels of Star Wars just go ahead an unfriend me right now.

  9. #9
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    But but but.... foye has proved himself over multiple years in the nba and burks is just a 21 year old sophmore
    We must continue to keep the kid on the bench and the veteran will continue to wow us!

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    I think it is just as feasible that he plays with the starters for the reason that all the big Al low posting is supposed to open up 3pt shooting. The second unit can then do a little more all-involved effort and take advantaged of the likes of Hayward who is a much more versatile player. Yes there is the tradeoff of Foye garding Kobe, but i think the positioning of Foye is not cut and dried, but plausible for multiple situations.

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    Foye is on a 1 year rental at $2.3mm. How enticing is his shooting & contract going to be to a team feeling like they need an extra shooter for their title run? Too bad LA doesn't have any 1st rounders to offer or that deal could be as quick as the phone call. How about Boston grabbing a backup for Terry? Maybe showcasing how he can shoot good when used correctly will get more return by the trade deadline.


    Also, Tinsley has never been able to shoot well and is downright aweful this season. Even so, his assist/36 minutes number is like a trillion or something. Can we cut the old guy a break already.
    Well done Sophie

  12. #12
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    Foye is on a 1 year rental at $2.3mm. How enticing is his shooting & contract going to be to a team feeling like they need an extra shooter for their title run? Too bad LA doesn't have any 1st rounders to offer or that deal could be as quick as the phone call. How about Boston grabbing a backup for Terry? Maybe showcasing how he can shoot good when used correctly will get more return by the trade deadline.


    Also, Tinsley has never been able to shoot well and is downright aweful this season. Even so, his assist/36 minutes number is like a trillion or something. Can we cut the old guy a break already.
    This is a good post and i think we have seen enough of foye to see that he is one hell of a 3 point shooter and belongs in a rotation in the nba.....Not sure if we should trade him for 1st round pick however cause it might just go to waste... a 2nd round pick however could be useful

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    Senior Member Broncster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrone Torbin View Post
    I feel like Foye has given the Jazz big boost with a ton of key shots though.
    It has been well discussed that the spurs collapsed down on us in the playoffs and I feel like the stats dont take into account that Foye and Mo have opened up the court for all the other players and are making teams respect the 3pt from us and have to defend it. It is not necessarily a problem of Foye's minutes its just sad that Favors is not taking up more of Milsap and Jeffersons minutes.

    I think the person who needs to play less is Tinsley and those minutes at back up point guard need to go to Foye and Burks. But neither should be playing at the PG position unless Hayward is on the court. Foye running the pick and roll with Favors is hard to watch. Foye simply cant get the ball to Favors and it is not really helpful to the team to run since generally both players stick with Foye and he either hoists up a shot over them or dribbles and passes to another player on the perimeter, it rarely goes well.

  14. #14
    Senior Member chawx's Avatar
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    Hmm...Favors should play more? ...hadn't really thought about that at all until this point.

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    this team needs a pg. bad.

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