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  1. #46
    Senior Member mellow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Thriller View Post
    I think of the reasons why this team is struggling and why fans are struggling to get too excited is that no one knows the expectations, identity, plan, or direction of this team.
    So you are saying that Milsaps looks lost because he is a 3 one night, a 4 the next and doesn't know if he will be here tomorrow? I buy that.

    I think the fan issues go deeper than just roster uncertainty, and as a fan all those empty seats scare the heck out of me. I'm a geek fan, I love the jazz and talk about them with co-workers, friends, and family. For the past few years, maybe 2-4, I have seen an increase in apathy towards the jazz among the casual followers and sports fanatics. When I ask people about the team, I usualy get a laugh. When I ask why they aren't interested I usually get a "They always lose" (not true, but they have never won it all) or a the "Lakers will beat them" and even a few "do they still play in Utah?"

    Based on my talks I figure that alot of people believe the NBA is a gimmick, the deck is stacked against the Jazz and as soon as things look good the Lakers trade for Gasol or Howard or Nash. If the team doesn't have a fighting chance, why get emotionally invovled?

    The other reason is that so many people don't have a chance to casually watch the team and become acquainted with it, or form a connection. The games used to be KJZZ available to everyone. So the guy without a dish or cable could still connect with the team, and become a fan. That is gone, and the folks with cable can follow the Lakers or Heat on higher quality broadcasts.

    Finally, I think the laggin economy, 12 years of war, and uncertainty of the future has alot of people saying 'there are more important things to worry about than basketball'. I have had people tell me so. I don't mean to start a Dem. Vs Rep. discussion in this thread, just reporting what people have said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hack View Post
    The scary thing is the team thinks the fans are enjoying this. I just recently heard a Randy Rigby interview and he talked a lot about how excited the fan base was for what we have going. He also talled about how good of problem it is to have all these bigs.

    So, I dont really think the FO is on the same page as the fans. And all that means is more of the same.
    I heard Rigby saying the same things. I think I posted in another thread that it concerned me that the Jazz seemed more interested in fielding a competitve practice then being competive in the games. But really I don't know what else he can say and based on the preseason sales and intrest in the new players he is sort of correct, there was some excitement surrounding the team. I think the empty seats on Jimmer night, the same night that Temple Square lights came on, might have had the Jazz brass talking this morning.

    Looking at the bigger picture and the moves the Jazz have made since Larry passed, I'm thinking this is who the Jazz are. Somewhere along the way Gail and Greg decided that they would rather field a team of 'nice' guys than trying to compete at the highest level without regard to character or community impact. The Jazz aren't the only team to do it. Without really looking into it I would say that Cleveland, Toronto, Orlando, Atlanta, and Phx are doing similar. And why would they extend a risk when the only reward is to lose to one of the super teams in the 1st or 2nd Round?
    X LIKE XENOPUS.

  2. #47
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mellow View Post
    So you are saying that Milsaps looks lost because he is a 3 one night, a 4 the next and doesn't know if he will be here tomorrow? I buy that.

    I think the fan issues go deeper than just roster uncertainty, and as a fan all those empty seats scare the heck out of me. I'm a geek fan, I love the jazz and talk about them with co-workers, friends, and family. For the past few years, maybe 2-4, I have seen an increase in apathy towards the jazz among the casual followers and sports fanatics. When I ask people about the team, I usualy get a laugh. When I ask why they aren't interested I usually get a "They always lose" (not true, but they have never won it all) or a the "Lakers will beat them" and even a few "do they still play in Utah?"

    Based on my talks I figure that alot of people believe the NBA is a gimmick, the deck is stacked against the Jazz and as soon as things look good the Lakers trade for Gasol or Howard or Nash. If the team doesn't have a fighting chance, why get emotionally invovled?

    The other reason is that so many people don't have a chance to casually watch the team and become acquainted with it, or form a connection. The games used to be KJZZ available to everyone. So the guy without a dish or cable could still connect with the team, and become a fan. That is gone, and the folks with cable can follow the Lakers or Heat on higher quality broadcasts.

    Finally, I think the laggin economy, 12 years of war, and uncertainty of the future has alot of people saying 'there are more important things to worry about than basketball'. I have had people tell me so. I don't mean to start a Dem. Vs Rep. discussion in this thread, just reporting what people have said.



    I heard Rigby saying the same things. I think I posted in another thread that it concerned me that the Jazz seemed more interested in fielding a competitve practice then being competive in the games. But really I don't know what else he can say and based on the preseason sales and intrest in the new players he is sort of correct, there was some excitement surrounding the team. I think the empty seats on Jimmer night, the same night that Temple Square lights came on, might have had the Jazz brass talking this morning.

    Looking at the bigger picture and the moves the Jazz have made since Larry passed, I'm thinking this is who the Jazz are. Somewhere along the way Gail and Greg decided that they would rather field a team of 'nice' guys than trying to compete at the highest level without regard to character or community impact. The Jazz aren't the only team to do it. Without really looking into it I would say that Cleveland, Toronto, Orlando, Atlanta, and Phx are doing similar. And why would they extend a risk when the only reward is to lose to one of the super teams in the 1st or 2nd Round?
    Good all around post.
    Repped

  3. #48
    In pursuit of #9 PKM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    That's because I'm a genius & you're an idoit. Most of you are borderline retarded compared to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by YB85 View Post
    Tihs
    Two totally awesome posts.
    #dumptruckin

  4. #49
    Senior Member Hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mellow View Post
    So you are saying that Milsaps looks lost because he is a 3 one night, a 4 the next and doesn't know if he will be here tomorrow? I buy that.

    I think the fan issues go deeper than just roster uncertainty, and as a fan all those empty seats scare the heck out of me. I'm a geek fan, I love the jazz and talk about them with co-workers, friends, and family. For the past few years, maybe 2-4, I have seen an increase in apathy towards the jazz among the casual followers and sports fanatics. When I ask people about the team, I usualy get a laugh. When I ask why they aren't interested I usually get a "They always lose" (not true, but they have never won it all) or a the "Lakers will beat them" and even a few "do they still play in Utah?"

    Based on my talks I figure that alot of people believe the NBA is a gimmick, the deck is stacked against the Jazz and as soon as things look good the Lakers trade for Gasol or Howard or Nash. If the team doesn't have a fighting chance, why get emotionally invovled?

    The other reason is that so many people don't have a chance to casually watch the team and become acquainted with it, or form a connection. The games used to be KJZZ available to everyone. So the guy without a dish or cable could still connect with the team, and become a fan. That is gone, and the folks with cable can follow the Lakers or Heat on higher quality broadcasts.

    Finally, I think the laggin economy, 12 years of war, and uncertainty of the future has alot of people saying 'there are more important things to worry about than basketball'. I have had people tell me so. I don't mean to start a Dem. Vs Rep. discussion in this thread, just reporting what people have said.



    I heard Rigby saying the same things. I think I posted in another thread that it concerned me that the Jazz seemed more interested in fielding a competitve practice then being competive in the games. But really I don't know what else he can say and based on the preseason sales and intrest in the new players he is sort of correct, there was some excitement surrounding the team. I think the empty seats on Jimmer night, the same night that Temple Square lights came on, might have had the Jazz brass talking this morning.

    Looking at the bigger picture and the moves the Jazz have made since Larry passed, I'm thinking this is who the Jazz are. Somewhere along the way Gail and Greg decided that they would rather field a team of 'nice' guys than trying to compete at the highest level without regard to character or community impact. The Jazz aren't the only team to do it. Without really looking into it I would say that Cleveland, Toronto, Orlando, Atlanta, and Phx are doing similar. And why would they extend a risk when the only reward is to lose to one of the super teams in the 1st or 2nd Round?
    Well, I for one am not happy with fielding an average team every year and being content with having good guys who can win a few games, but never the big one. In years past I would usually attend about 6-8 games a year during the regular season, and then one playoff game. But I havent been since the year before Boozer left. Ive been protesting going for that long. Mainly because I am convinced the team truly isnt dedicated to winning a championship. Either that, or they have no clue how to win a championship. So I wont be back until some heads roll and some philosophy changes. And nothing will change until people stop going to the games. Im just waiting for everyone else to catch on and do the same. The team might think everyone loves the way they do it, I dont.


    I would start going to games again if they fired KOC and traded Jefferson. But thats not happening.

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  6. #50
    Senior Member mellow's Avatar
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    I have nothing more than a gut feel, but I think the more green we see at the home games



    makes this more likely.
    X LIKE XENOPUS.

  7. #51
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    I actually planned on getting season tickets this year (something i have never done before) because i was so excited to see burks, hayward, kanter, and favors become the core and focus of this team and ended up not buying due to my wife and i deciding to go to cancuun for a few weeks instead.
    Im so glad i didn't get them now.

    I actually want to get season tickets next year but after last year and now this year im not so sure that we wont just grab a couple more mediocore/washed up vets with experience to take most of the minutes next year as well, so i think i will just go on another long vacaction with that money again next year instead...... Maybe Aruba this time!

  8. #52
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mellow View Post
    I have nothing more than a gut feel, but I think the more green we see at the home games



    makes this more likely.
    I sure hope not!

    Losing this team would break my heart, the jazz are a big part of my life and i would be devastated it they left.

  9. #53
    Moderator Stoked's Avatar
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    @ Mellow

    I seriously doubt it. The Jaz zmight have empty seats but they are empty paid for seats. That's the key. Is the money coming in. Jazz are 11th in average attendance.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance
    #BelieveInLindsey

  10. #54
    Senior Member mellow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoked View Post
    @ Mellow

    I seriously doubt it. The Jaz zmight have empty seats but they are empty paid for seats. That's the key. Is the money coming in. Jazz are 11th in average attendance.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance
    What! are you freakin' joking? Who buys those seats and then doesn't go? It seems really wasteful, are you sure they are paid for? It makes me feel better about my jazz but man what a waste, don't they know I would go for them?
    X LIKE XENOPUS.

  11. #55
    Moderator Stoked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mellow View Post
    What! are you freakin' joking? Who buys those seats and then doesn't go? It seems really wasteful, are you sure they are paid for? It makes me feel better about my jazz but man what a waste, don't they know I would go for them?
    I'm sure it is alot of things. People buying tickets and trying to sell them but can't sell them all, those that don't go, people in the restroom or concessions, people leaving early...

    Edit: I am pretty sure they are paid for. The Jazz always have good attendance.
    #BelieveInLindsey

  12. #56
    Senior Member JGolds's Avatar
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    look how many first round exits we have had http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=utahpost Jazz our a fringe team... just like half our players. we show just enough greatness to keep you coming and hoping....... but then all hopes and dreams are dashed to pieces... just in time for them to start bldg again for the next year.
    “Silence is golden, and gold is up these days, so silence is a solid investment.”
    ― Jarod Kintz


  13. #57
    Moderator Stoked's Avatar
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    It does appear that 11th is rather low for Utah. They have lost around 500-750 fans a game. Figure at an avg. of 50.00 a ticket they have lost 25k - 37.5k a game in ticket sales alone. Then concessions, merchandise sales...

    In 2008-2009 they were 6th (19,903 avg.)
    2009-2010 - 6th (19,378 avg.)
    2010-2011 - 7th (19,511 avg.)
    2011-2012 - 6th (19,306 avg.)
    2012-2013 = 11th (18,768 avg.)
    #BelieveInLindsey

  14. #58
    Moderator Stoked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGolds View Post
    look how many first round exits we have had http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=utahpost Jazz our a fringe team... just like half our players. we show just enough greatness to keep you coming and hoping....... but then all hopes and dreams are dashed to pieces... just in time for them to start bldg again for the next year.
    http://www.nba.com/history/records/a...layoff_wl.html

    Jazz are 11th in existing teams. With ap layoff record of 109-113.
    #BelieveInLindsey

  15. #59
    Senior Member JGolds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoked View Post
    http://www.nba.com/history/records/a...layoff_wl.html

    Jazz are 11th in existing teams. With ap layoff record of 109-113.
    but what i was trying to show using the link is that we have had alot of first round exits.
    “Silence is golden, and gold is up these days, so silence is a solid investment.”
    ― Jarod Kintz


  16. #60
    Moderator Stoked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGolds View Post
    but what i was trying to show using the link is that we have had alot of first round exits.
    I know. I was supporting your statement. SHowing that the Jazz are just under .500 in the playoffs. Anotehr indicator that the Jazz are mediocre in the playoffs.
    #BelieveInLindsey

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