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Thread: Gut the team

  1. #76
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    Hey Wes, other than the Thunder who was the last team to rise to prominence through draft picks???

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  3. #77
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Seems like most of the spurs players are original spurs guys.

    Plus as alot of people have mentioned.... you can use draft picks and young players to aquire all stars. (see james harden to houston)

  4. #78
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Boston drafted pierce and rondo
    Lakers drafted kobe
    Bulls drafted rose
    3 of those four guys were important parts to getting championships.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NUMBERICA View Post
    The Jazz don't even have to gut the team to be forced into radical change. Dump Al in a way the either doesn't bring back a player, or package him with another and get one back. Suddenly, Favors and/or Kanter have 30+ minutes available to them.
    and, Hayward doesn't have to move to the bench because he doesn't fit as well with Jefferson as Foye.

    Al is the bottleneck.

  6. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
    Boston drafted pierce and rondo
    Lakers drafted kobe
    Bulls drafted rose
    3 of those four guys were important parts to getting championships.
    Boston didn't draft Rondo (draft day trade)
    and Kobe + agent threatened everybody ahead of the Lakers, allowing his slide.
    Rose went #1

  7. #81
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kennykyle View Post
    Hey Wes, other than the Thunder who was the last team to rise to prominence through draft picks???
    I disagree with this logic. I have a hard time seeing good organizations like the Jazz screwing up good draft picks the way Golden State & LA Clippers have. The losing culture of these organizations comes from ownership & management, & is in place before the talent comes into play.

    There's no way I could root for the Jazz if I visioned them screwing up acquiring Anthony Davis last summer to pair with Favors, then adding Damian Lillard and trading Kanter for a stud wing to go with Hayward. The Jazz are not LA Clippers; they can tank a season under the right circumstances and come out ahead.



    *Edit to add an example: Deron Williams following an awful season (that was fun as hell to watch).



    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    Boston didn't draft Rondo (draft day trade)
    and Kobe + agent threatened everybody ahead of the Lakers, allowing his slide.
    Rose went #1
    Might as well add Boston's horrific years as example of what a good program can do with high draft picks.

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    If what we're talking about here is getting a knife and ripping crappy players guts out of their abdomen then count me in. If not then I guess trading Al is an okay idea too.

  9. #83
    Senior Member gregbroncs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post

    I think that last year and this year the jazz COULD have played burks and kanter 20 minutes per game and favors and hayward 30 minutes per game and still had a good record and possibly made the playoffs even (much different than the teams you mentioned).
    Also you must look at who was playing ahead of burks and to some extent taking minutes from hayward: Howard, bell, cj miles..... would we really have been much worse if more of those players minutes had went to hayward and burks? Doubtful.
    So to me the jazz (mainly corbin) screwed up big time by giving minutes to CJ, bell and howard (all gone btw) instead of burks and hayward taking more of thier minutes.

    Whats worse is that now they are doing it again: Giving minutes to foye instead of burks when foye will probably be gone next year just like cj, bell, and howard is just adding to the mistakes of last year.
    I'll take this one step further. There is no way that both Millsap and Jefferson return so they are doing this same thing with Jefferson and Millsap instead of Favors. Overall Favors is the best player on our team. And he is 8th in minutes played. Corbin needs to go. His love affair with average vets over talented young guys is far worse than Sloan. I believe if Sloan were coach that Favors and possibly Kanter would be playing more minutes.
    GO BRONCOS!

  10. #84
    Senior Member NUMBERICA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kennykyle View Post
    Hey Wes, other than the Thunder who was the last team to rise to prominence through draft picks???
    Considering that every good player ever has been drafted... I can't even finish this thought and shouldn't have to.
    #loseeveryremaininggame

  11. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by kennykyle View Post
    Hey Wes, other than the Thunder who was the last team to rise to prominence through draft picks???
    Prominence? The Spurs I suppose.

    And before people even respond, I guess my philosophy is obviously quite different from others. Many here are satisfied staying with the status quo. They don't mind 40-50 wins a year, a playoff showing to give them (false) hope, and an off-season in which the FO tinkers with the team to keep up the facade of striving for success.

    I'm in the opposite camp. I want to strip the dead weight. Al, Foye, Bell, Watson most of all, not that the latter two have much trade value at all. And Mo to a much lesser degree. We need to give Kanter, Favors and Burks the time they need to show us if they have what it takes or not. If we suck, we suck but if nothing else, we can get a better gauge on where these guys are at and get a higher draft pick at the same time. At the same time, we're developing a philosophy (defense matters) and getting rid of Al and Foye will help to spell that out. And for me, Corbin won't be the coach to steer us there. A guy who knows who he is as a HC like JVG or SVG is.

  12. #86
    Senior Member NUMBERICA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregbroncs View Post
    I'll take this one step further. There is no way that both Millsap and Jefferson return so they are doing this same thing with Jefferson and Millsap instead of Favors. Overall Favors is the best player on our team. And he is 8th in minutes played. Corbin needs to go. His love affair with average vets over talented young guys is far worse than Sloan. I believe if Sloan were coach that Favors and possibly Kanter would be playing more minutes.
    I honestly believe this is more a question of Corbin's stones and the position he's been put in than that he's really that blind and retarded.
    #loseeveryremaininggame

  13. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUMBERICA View Post
    I honestly believe this is more a question of Corbin's stones and the position he's been put in than that he's really that blind and retarded.
    Does that make it easier to swallow? No. Either way he's a mental midget.

  14. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Growlor View Post
    That worked when Mo was in. Tinsley and Watson not so much.
    Can Mo stay healthy for long stretches?
    HUH?

    what games have you been watching the running and gunning seems better with tinsley.
    although it s just an effect of better defense from the bigs
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  15. #89
    Senior Member Ellipse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUMBERICA View Post
    The Corbin hire was boneheaded wishful-thinking. There's a reason teams hire interim THEN do research and make a decision. Maybe he ends up working out and maybe he doesn't, but so far I am not impressed. The Jazz didn't have to immediately extend him, and that they chose to shows how amateur this organization can be at times.

    That said, Corbin has no easy choices to make with minute distribution. If he starts benching vets hard like everyone wants then the players' trade value gets murdered. KOC/Lindsey need to step up and clear some timber. Plain and simple. KOC probably should've done that last year, but that he hasn't yet (Al specifically) is a huge mistake.

    And for the record, I haven't really watched any games this year and I don't really give a ****.
    I don't know where this concept orginated -- playing players to keep up their trade value -- but I'm sure it didn't come from the Jazz FO. The Jazz are not in the business of trading players to make money, they are in the business of selling their product to the fans. Now the problems I have with Corbin's coaching is his short-term, win-now philosophy doesn't bode well for my (AKA a fan) goals for long-term hopes for the team. I also don't think that giving Burks 10 mpg and bumping Kanter's minutes up would give the Jazz any more losses; that's the problem I have with the coach.

    But I will never accuse Corbin of playing this sorry bunch of vets just to keep their trade value up.

  16. #90
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth View Post
    Prominence? The Spurs I suppose.

    And before people even respond, I guess my philosophy is obviously quite different from others. Many here are satisfied staying with the status quo. They don't mind 40-50 wins a year, a playoff showing to give them (false) hope, and an off-season in which the FO tinkers with the team to keep up the facade of striving for success.

    I'm in the opposite camp. I want to strip the dead weight. Al, Foye, Bell, Watson most of all, not that the latter two have much trade value at all. And Mo to a much lesser degree. We need to give Kanter, Favors and Burks the time they need to show us if they have what it takes or not. If we suck, we suck but if nothing else, we can get a better gauge on where these guys are at and get a higher draft pick at the same time. At the same time, we're developing a philosophy (defense matters) and getting rid of Al and Foye will help to spell that out. And for me, Corbin won't be the coach to steer us there. A guy who knows who he is as a HC like JVG or SVG is.
    Jazz fans are used to always having a chance with S&M and hope with Williams. It's time for a new strategy to obtain a new anchor. Free agency is not it for Utah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth View Post
    Does that make it easier to swallow? No. Either way he's a mental midget.
    Enough with your mental block already.

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