Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 28 of 28

Thread: South China Sea

  1. #16
    Senior Member Hack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    in liquid hot lava
    Posts
    10,594
    Total Rep Points
    21116
    Rep Adjustment Power
    81
    Im not afraid of anyone shorter than me.

  2. #17
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Drinkin haterade, ridin the hate train through hateville
    Posts
    13,313
    Total Rep Points
    32646
    Rep Adjustment Power
    100
    Quote Originally Posted by PKM View Post
    I appreciate all these conversations, but our daily-increasing debt is the one thing that is quickly (if not already) becoming the no-way-back issue. I have at least 50 friends that are $100MM+ guys .. and NONE of them are cavalier about what is going on. ALL of them are in almost a coma like phase .. knowing America is done. They are making moves not for their personal investments, but to protect their grandkids from a country that will have a far inferior identity from what they grew up in ..

    make fun all you want, but there are REALLY smart people that have moved beyond concerned to it's over .. and it's not politics, it's economics.
    3 deep level funny right here.
    No Mediocrity

  3. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    In a ghetto near you. . . .
    Posts
    5,576
    Total Rep Points
    11670
    Rep Adjustment Power
    54
    Quote Originally Posted by Hack View Post
    Does the U.S. claim any bodies of water similar to this?
    Well, at a level of complete, absolute ignorance about world affairs, I have to give you credit for recognizing US hegemony over virtually the whole world, via our lackey UN organization. Similarly, at a comparable level of understanding about Asian population I can see your point about how since you can't tell the difference between Asians how could anyone else.

    The fact is, we haven't been "our own nation" since the Civil War, the watershed of actual liberty which, while being loosely associated with a supposed advancement in civil liberty for the black slaves, was also the foot in the door for British interests which became prominent in banking and the various robber baron cartels. While the nominal "robber barons" were "Americans" at the head of these organizations, the money behind them, and the philosophy behind them, was a new outreach of British Imperialism. As a result, today our various leading "interests" influential in American politics are generally quite the reverse of "American" and quite the tweedle dee to the twiddle dumb of British interests. And following from than, the UN is really pretty much the British ideal of oligarchy and sophisticated management of world affairs through puppet stooges.

    The whole problem with the "New World Order" ideal of world governance is the fact that some of the "stooges" have become the gorillas in the bedroom of world dominance, and do in fact realize that their power is sufficient to re-order the whole "family" under their overt tyrrany.

    And I bet you won't be too happy with how that works out.

    Do nothing to defend the status quo in the South China sea, and it will be impossible to do anything about it anywhere else.

  4. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    In a ghetto near you. . . .
    Posts
    5,576
    Total Rep Points
    11670
    Rep Adjustment Power
    54
    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    Let me give you this from an economic perspective.

    This is the reason we've been trading china a bunch of paper for their low skill junk. We own these bitches now that they've become dumb enough to hinge their economy on ours.

    If china gets frisky then we shut off all imports, the allies discontinue shipping them metals, coal, food, & oil, and we congratulate them on holding how ever much trillion plus treasuries that we are now not going to pay them anything for. China knows this of course & that's why they are fighting for international relevancy while digging for meaningful trade power with other players.

    It's rare that the commie leaders say this but this is exactly why they say they hate us. We are too damn powerful and there is nothing they can do about it because we've game planned them into a corner. Their only strength is sending hordes of citizens armed with sticks & stones back through N. Korea, the Iran relations & such, or finally giving in by democratizing the nation. Too bad Israel is badass and would chimp chop Iran pretty quickly as long as they don't have nukes -- that's key.


    As far as their navy goes....well, ours would have a good laugh at those rafts.
    This is an excellent, concise, rationale for western arrogance, mediated by "our" institutions like banks or the UN. From an oriental or more particularly Chinese view, however, it looks like vulnerability.

    Before the Korean War, the Chinese studied MacArthur as the relevant man in Asia, and saw him as arrogant, hence vulnerable, and decided they could take him on. He did indeed prove vulnerable, not militarily but politically, and we ourselves unseated him as the relevant "man" in China, and showed ourselves to lack the will to achieve our national interests in Asia.

  5. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    9,557
    Total Rep Points
    4566
    Rep Adjustment Power
    33
    nuke china to kingdom come
    01-21-2013
    I, HeavenHarris, hereby pledge to my fellow JFC'rs that I will no longer give out neg-reps. All it does is cause negative things, like fights, drama, bitching, ill will, bad feelings, etc.
    Love, not hate, is the answer bros and moes.

    LOL Lol breaks his pledge 5 days later hahahaha

  6.  

     

  7. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    In a ghetto near you. . . .
    Posts
    5,576
    Total Rep Points
    11670
    Rep Adjustment Power
    54
    Quote Originally Posted by DutchJazzer View Post
    nuke china to kingdom come
    C'mon Dutch. I understand the intellectual laziness that's involved in just being this ignorant. Sometimes beer is just more important than manners.

    But we can't do that without entombing ourselves in a planetary dust cloud that would last twenty years and freeze us out of existence, even if China and/or Russia had no ability to return fire. And besides, whatever else you can say about the Chinese, they are the best and hardest working people on this planet, and aside from their cultural conformance obsessions, probably the smartest too.

    The British have known for centuries that their only chance to dominate China is to dope them up and control their trade, and saddle them with an insane western political ideology called marxism. Looks like they've sprung loose from the Brit trap after all. Wish I could say the Americans have done as much.

    If we were really smart, we'd edge the Brits out of influence in China, and shoe-horn American liberty in, and call them our allies.

    Come to think of it, that's what we should do in the Middle East, too.

  8. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,831
    Total Rep Points
    1026
    Rep Adjustment Power
    0
    I wonder what kind of effect this will have on the flow of jobs being outsourced to China.

  9. #23
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Drinkin haterade, ridin the hate train through hateville
    Posts
    13,313
    Total Rep Points
    32646
    Rep Adjustment Power
    100
    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    3 deep level funny right here.
    Another drunk post that didn't come across as intended. It wasn't meant in an offensive way PeeK.

    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    This is an excellent, concise, rationale for western arrogance, mediated by "our" institutions like banks or the UN. From an oriental or more particularly Chinese view, however, it looks like vulnerability.
    Based on your POV I suppose. Of course both the leaders of both nations have drilled down strategy-counter strategy to the same consise point. I could troll this with a sarcastic comment on being worried dead cold about America having to make our own t-shirts and pencils again, but I think you get the point. If China actually has an advantage here then you're going to have to outline what it is to persuade me.

    Also, there's always the "hot money" flow issues China would have to deal with.
    No Mediocrity

  10. #24
    Senior Member Beantown's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Look outside your window
    Posts
    6,944
    Total Rep Points
    6196
    Rep Adjustment Power
    38
    screw the south china sea.
    GVC'S thoughts on the Jazz drafting Hayward......

    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    Why not just buy a late 1st and draft Luke Babbitt? Better Body, better basketball skills, better athleticism...

  11. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    In a ghetto near you. . . .
    Posts
    5,576
    Total Rep Points
    11670
    Rep Adjustment Power
    54
    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    Another drunk post that didn't come across as intended. It wasn't meant in an offensive way PeeK.



    Based on your POV I suppose. Of course both the leaders of both nations have drilled down strategy-counter strategy to the same consise point. I could troll this with a sarcastic comment on being worried dead cold about America having to make our own t-shirts and pencils again, but I think you get the point. If China actually has an advantage here then you're going to have to outline what it is to persuade me.

    Also, there's always the "hot money" flow issues China would have to deal with.
    Franklin, at some point of development, most nations with large land mass, abundant resources, and eager laborers will find their own use for their own stuff. Largely speaking, the junk they make to sell to Americans at Walmart in the USA could be called a waste of their resources and talents.

    In mega-bank rhetoric, once they set up some factories that can produce useful things of long-lasting value, the American dollars we fondly imagine they'll ship back to us at depreciated values can just as well be replaced by fiat currency of their own printing, and their people can keep rolling outta bed and going to work just the same, and make use of their own stuff.

    I have a very smart sister in law who grew up in China. It's interesting to hear how things are over there from her. I also have a pretty smart nephew who is there working for a Chinese supercorp, but he can't be bothered to talk to me. I have to distill what he says from my sister, who can't be counted on to understand what she's been told.

    Tell you what, instead of just doing my usual smartass imitation, I'll check out things the best I can, and try to give you a better response in few days.

  12. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    In a ghetto near you. . . .
    Posts
    5,576
    Total Rep Points
    11670
    Rep Adjustment Power
    54
    Quote Originally Posted by Beantown View Post
    screw the south china sea.
    At some point in time we'll have to learn to leave our mitts off other countries and make arrangements that are mutally beneficial with other countries all around the world.
    "Alliance with none, commerce with all" will one day be our humble plea. . . . . If we can defend "our" territory. . . .

    Japan learned its lesson pretty quick about trying to manage Asia, but only because we were in the fight. Basically, even China will find it untenable to impose "management" over the peripheral territories of Southeast Asia, as well as Japan. Because the military costs will escalate to the point of diminishing returns, and it will have it's manpower depleted by doing so. I mean "reliable" manpower that will not take advantage of personal opportunities to enhance life at the expense of the "State". Bribes are pretty much the way of life in Asia, and the chief impediment to top-down rule.

    No "corrupt" government can really be "strong".

  13. #27
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Drinkin haterade, ridin the hate train through hateville
    Posts
    13,313
    Total Rep Points
    32646
    Rep Adjustment Power
    100
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    This is an excellent, concise, rationale for western arrogance, mediated by "our" institutions like banks or the UN. From an oriental or more particularly Chinese view, however, it looks like vulnerability.
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    In mega-bank rhetoric, once they set up some factories that can produce useful things of long-lasting value, the American dollars we fondly imagine they'll ship back to us at depreciated values can just as well be replaced by fiat currency of their own printing, and their people can keep rolling outta bed and going to work just the same, and make use of their own stuff.
    The thing I don't get is a quickness to laud central planning communists for attacking a vulnerability while dismissing our own way of life as entirely egotistical. Aren't the central planners the ones who are supposed to have the weaker system?

    The shortcoming of communists is they can't create a vibrant economy without losing control so the build export-oriented models in order to mask their faults. The Russians did this with their grain crops and weaponry, and their people starved. The Chinese people are starving from their export-oriented system. America found out the pitfalls of relying on the consumption of others much more severely than Europe after 1929. Japan had a similar learning experience when things ended badly with the Plaza Accords. Export nations are dependent on outside forces and these economies can either adjust or they can implode. It is not a sign of strength.

    If it were as easy for China to do what you suggest -- simply print their own self-sustaining fiat -- and retain communistic control over their economy then they would. However, their banking system is highly corrupt and designed to pay off the local CP leaders with bad loans that are paid for by destroying the savings of their citizens. Their banks are highly suspect of being insolvent and this wouldn't be the first time they were forced to use foreign reserves to shore up these corrupt banks (see Asian Currency Crisis).

    In order to reverse this chronic condition they have to stop robbing their citizens of purchasing power and turn control over to the people in a democratic fashion. When they do that we win. Their options are to implode or create a more sustainable economy. That's why they are finally focusing on consumption over production, or at least giving lip service to it. They've seen the end game and know they'll have to change their ways or get put right back into that place the Brits left them.

    Murricah **** Yeah!
    No Mediocrity

  14. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    In a ghetto near you. . . .
    Posts
    5,576
    Total Rep Points
    11670
    Rep Adjustment Power
    54
    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    The thing I don't get is a quickness to laud central planning communists for attacking a vulnerability while dismissing our own way of life as entirely egotistical. Aren't the central planners the ones who are supposed to have the weaker system?

    The shortcoming of communists is they can't create a vibrant economy without losing control so the build export-oriented models in order to mask their faults. The Russians did this with their grain crops and weaponry, and their people starved. The Chinese people are starving from their export-oriented system. America found out the pitfalls of relying on the consumption of others much more severely than Europe after 1929. Japan had a similar learning experience when things ended badly with the Plaza Accords. Export nations are dependent on outside forces and these economies can either adjust or they can implode. It is not a sign of strength.

    If it were as easy for China to do what you suggest -- simply print their own self-sustaining fiat -- and retain communistic control over their economy then they would. However, their banking system is highly corrupt and designed to pay off the local CP leaders with bad loans that are paid for by destroying the savings of their citizens. Their banks are highly suspect of being insolvent and this wouldn't be the first time they were forced to use foreign reserves to shore up these corrupt banks (see Asian Currency Crisis).

    In order to reverse this chronic condition they have to stop robbing their citizens of purchasing power and turn control over to the people in a democratic fashion. When they do that we win. Their options are to implode or create a more sustainable economy. That's why they are finally focusing on consumption over production, or at least giving lip service to it. They've seen the end game and know they'll have to change their ways or get put right back into that place the Brits left them.

    Murricah **** Yeah!
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to franklin again.
    well, I guess I'll have to go through some other threads to "earn" the privilege to give you credit for this.

    I guess my emphasis is on trying to crap on our own growing central planning penchant and tolerance for corruption. If we don't want to implode our own selves as a nation that can do some good in the world as well as manage our own selves. . . . we'll have to pass on the general world-wide "corruption" that is and will be the reason nobody else can do anything good for the world, either.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •