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  1. #46
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    Sometimes you have to make bold moves to move forward. At this point going after Gasol is bold or trading Jeff/Sap for picks and going young is bold. I would take on Perkins in OKC if it got us all those good picks too... thats bold with huge upside. Resigning either Jeff/Sap is giving in to wanting butts in seats, and mediocrity. In my mind the funnest season of the last 10-12 was the AK, Bell, Harpring year of 41 and 41 when everyone thought we would lose the most games in one season all time and we were a scrappy fun team to watch. But the truth is we have no star, and until we get one to pair with our near star or upcoming star (Favors) and our good players (Hayward, Burks, Kanter) we will stay mediocre. Gasol is that. If we can't land him I say trade Sap for the best picks possible or if possible Bledsoe/Odom for Sap. Then sign and trade Jefferson in the off season for the TPE. The TPE may be the most valuable thing we can get for Sap if he doesn't cut it for the Lakers to get Gasol, or if Houston isn't willing to give up Parson or Patterson/Morris etc. I would love to trade Sap/Tinsley for Perkins/Tor pick/Dallas Pick/Maynor. My preferred trade is Sap/Mo Williams/Raja for Gasol.

    We can like Millsap and Jefferson all we want, but both are the kind of guys we can always get if we want to. We got Jefferson because Minnesota had another up and coming star in his position and didn't want to pay the last $42M of his deal. We can sign and trade Jefferson like we did Boozer and then find a player who fits the TPException, same with Millsap.

  2. #47
    Senior Member LunaticWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackham9258 View Post
    Sometimes you have to make bold moves to move forward. At this point going after Gasol is bold or trading Jeff/Sap for picks and going young is bold. I would take on Perkins in OKC if it got us all those good picks too... thats bold with huge upside. Resigning either Jeff/Sap is giving in to wanting butts in seats, and mediocrity. In my mind the funnest season of the last 10-12 was the AK, Bell, Harpring year of 41 and 41 when everyone thought we would lose the most games in one season all time and we were a scrappy fun team to watch. But the truth is we have no star, and until we get one to pair with our near star or upcoming star (Favors) and our good players (Hayward, Burks, Kanter) we will stay mediocre. Gasol is that. If we can't land him I say trade Sap for the best picks possible or if possible Bledsoe/Odom for Sap. Then sign and trade Jefferson in the off season for the TPE. The TPE may be the most valuable thing we can get for Sap if he doesn't cut it for the Lakers to get Gasol, or if Houston isn't willing to give up Parson or Patterson/Morris etc. I would love to trade Sap/Tinsley for Perkins/Tor pick/Dallas Pick/Maynor. My preferred trade is Sap/Mo Williams/Raja for Gasol.

    We can like Millsap and Jefferson all we want, but both are the kind of guys we can always get if we want to. We got Jefferson because Minnesota had another up and coming star in his position and didn't want to pay the last $42M of his deal. We can sign and trade Jefferson like we did Boozer and then find a player who fits the TPException, same with Millsap.
    Gasol is 32. He's not going to be a star for much longer.
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

  3. #48
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Are we really at the overanalyst point of comparing Millsap to Brandon Bass? At the time they got their contracts everyone was saying how cheap Bass was had for. Then Bass played like Bass played and Millsap played like Millsap plays.

    Bass is a role player and Millsap is a tweener. Any team who gets Millsap for Bass money is lucky as ****.
    No Mediocrity

  4. #49
    Senior Member orangello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    Are we really at the overanalyst point of comparing Millsap to Brandon Bass? At the time they got their contracts everyone was saying how cheap Bass was had for. Then Bass played like Bass played and Millsap played like Millsap plays.

    Bass is a role player and Millsap is a tweener. Any team who gets Millsap for Bass money is lucky as ****.
    And anyone that pays 9+ million for even one year is overpaying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    So I was very mad about the game, but I wasn't going to vent here, because you guys all feel the same way. However, Ty's postgame interview got my blood boiling. On why he let Trey and Gordon play while having bad games, "You gotta let them battle through it because that's what you gotta do." Really are you kidding me. You have to balls to say that when you pulled Alec after 16 minutes against LAC and Kanter got 19 minutes toinght?

  5. #50
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackham9258 View Post
    Sometimes you have to make bold moves to move forward. At this point going after Gasol is bold or trading Jeff/Sap for picks and going young is bold. I would take on Perkins in OKC if it got us all those good picks too... thats bold with huge upside. Resigning either Jeff/Sap is giving in to wanting butts in seats, and mediocrity. In my mind the funnest season of the last 10-12 was the AK, Bell, Harpring year of 41 and 41 when everyone thought we would lose the most games in one season all time and we were a scrappy fun team to watch. But the truth is we have no star, and until we get one to pair with our near star or upcoming star (Favors) and our good players (Hayward, Burks, Kanter) we will stay mediocre. Gasol is that. If we can't land him I say trade Sap for the best picks possible or if possible Bledsoe/Odom for Sap. Then sign and trade Jefferson in the off season for the TPE. The TPE may be the most valuable thing we can get for Sap if he doesn't cut it for the Lakers to get Gasol, or if Houston isn't willing to give up Parson or Patterson/Morris etc. I would love to trade Sap/Tinsley for Perkins/Tor pick/Dallas Pick/Maynor. My preferred trade is Sap/Mo Williams/Raja for Gasol.

    We can like Millsap and Jefferson all we want, but both are the kind of guys we can always get if we want to. We got Jefferson because Minnesota had another up and coming star in his position and didn't want to pay the last $42M of his deal. We can sign and trade Jefferson like we did Boozer and then find a player who fits the TPException, same with Millsap.

    Lot of good in this.

    The problem with OKC trading that Toronto pick and Perk for Jeffy is salary and defending Howard. They have to give up Thabo to get it done & going 2 for 1 leaves them a man short of a championship. If Peking Duck goes down with a career threatening injury before the trade deadline then it will be a pick toward the best offer's way. Can't root for that but it is a possibility.
    No Mediocrity

  6. #51
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    He's been worth every bloody cent of this contract.

  7. #52
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangello View Post
    And anyone that pays 9+ million for even one year is overpaying.
    Bass made six IIRC. Last year & offseason everyone was giving Sap a clean 10-12.5+. Hard to see 18 games knocking $4mm or more off his value. Shows how dumb we are as fans I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    He's been worth every bloody cent of this contract.
    Amen brother. The Sap bashing on here is shameful of fans. No need to vent our frustrations on real humans for being what they are.
    No Mediocrity

  8. #53
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    The Perk deal is Sap for Perk, not Jeffy

  9.  

     

  10. #54
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackham9258 View Post
    The Perk deal is Sap for Perk, not Jeffy
    If OKC is doing that it takes the Toronto pick and they could land Varejao with that, who's a much better defender & fit.

    Millsap & Foye for PJIII, Perk & the TOR pick works after Dec. 15. If I'm OKC I want Varejao without dropping PJIII into it. I don't see Foye as an absolute need for them.
    No Mediocrity

  11. #55
    Senior Member orangello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    If OKC is doing that it takes the Toronto pick and they could land Varejao with that, who's a much better defender & fit.

    Millsap & Foye for PJIII, Perk & the TOR pick works after Dec. 15. If I'm OKC I want Varejao without dropping PJIII into it. I don't see Foye as an absolute need for them.
    I would take that trade even if the Toronto pick is not included.
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    So I was very mad about the game, but I wasn't going to vent here, because you guys all feel the same way. However, Ty's postgame interview got my blood boiling. On why he let Trey and Gordon play while having bad games, "You gotta let them battle through it because that's what you gotta do." Really are you kidding me. You have to balls to say that when you pulled Alec after 16 minutes against LAC and Kanter got 19 minutes toinght?

  12. #56
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangello View Post
    I would take that trade even if the Toronto pick is not included.
    Why?


    (Perk 3 total years contract)
    No Mediocrity

  13. #57
    Senior Member orangello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    Why?


    (Perk 3 total years contract)
    Didn't realize that. Can I revoke my previous statement?
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    So I was very mad about the game, but I wasn't going to vent here, because you guys all feel the same way. However, Ty's postgame interview got my blood boiling. On why he let Trey and Gordon play while having bad games, "You gotta let them battle through it because that's what you gotta do." Really are you kidding me. You have to balls to say that when you pulled Alec after 16 minutes against LAC and Kanter got 19 minutes toinght?

  14. #58
    Senior Member cctrackstar's Avatar
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    my opinion of current player value:

    Mo: 5 mil, maybe 6

    Foye: 4 or 5. More than he's getting, but he is proving to be a pretty darn good 3 point shooter. Value goes down because of his lack of size though.

    Hayward: Right now, 4.5. Shows promise but lacks consistency. Typical for young players.

    Burks: 3 mil. Needs to learn the game, but right now value is about 3.

    Marvin: 7.5. Yeah, I'd be fine if he keeps his last year, he's a good all around player.

    Millsap: also 7.5 I can't see much in his game that is any better than marvin.

    Al: 9 mil. He's getting a lot more than that but even with his offensive power, he has too many weaknesses to be paid
    like a star.

    Kanter: Right Now? actually he really deserves about 5 mil, with his size and energy. That could go up as he learns the game.

    Favors: Still pretty raw, but valuable to the team, he gets about 6 as he is right now. Again, that could go up as he gets better.

    Demaree Carroll: Probably about 3.5 to 4, he is getting better and is a good energy guy.

    Everyone else gets less than 3 mil, just filler players.

    That puts us a roughly 65 million, which is pretty close to the tax threshold. Now I understand that half of these players won't take contracts that low, which is why there is no way that the team stays together after this offseason, but this is again what I think they are worth.

  15. #59
    Senior Member bovice's Avatar
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    lol @ favors with 6 mil. He'd start at C or PF for over half the teams in this league.

  16. #60
    Senior Member Catchall's Avatar
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    I think the Jazz are prepared to lose Millsap as a free agent. They're still in the process of bringing along the young players and looking for other assets and probably aren't too worried about competing this year. A bunch of players are uncommitted after the end of the season--Al, Sap, Mo, and Foye. I honestly think they're playing Paul a) as a favor to keep his value up for his impending free agency, and b) to keep his value up for a potential trade. I think Millsap knows he's the odd man out, and that's why he's half-stepping it.

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