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  1. #1
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    the reality of Lindsey's new job

    Lindsey was hired during what many of us considered to be the later stages of the post-Deron rebuild. KOC had done a fine job assembling a young nucleus of talent, and had wisely organized the contracts of his veterans so that they'd expire at the same time and give us a lot of flexibility. This has all been well documented, and has caused many around here to become (unrealistically?) optimistic.

    KOC's final moves as a one-man band were actually significant. Mo, Marv, and Foye are clear upgrades from the players they replaced; and, from KOC's perspective, were a better fit with the rest of the roster. Because he made these significant changes, we can compare last year's team to this year's and make interesting conclusions about the deeper trends in the organization, and, thus, the reality of the situation that Lindsey has been asked to help transform.

    I hope this is just the beginning of a conversation, so here are just a few conclusions:

    1. Despite making the appropriate defensive adjustment (forcing baseline), adding one of the best defensive prospects in years (Favors), and having a handful of average to above average defenders (Hayward, Marv, Millsap, Carroll, and even Kanter), the Jazz have nevertheless remained stuck in a culture of far below average defense. Lindsey needs to add defenders.

    2. The jazz continue to foul too much.

    3. Despite the high offensive ratings last year, the Jazz continue to be a team that isn't efficient enough. This appears to be getting worse. Moreover, the offense is one-dimensional; it lacks the nuances and misdirections to be effective in close games and in the playoffs. Lindsey needs to add a high-efficiency closer that knows what to do when a play breaks down.

    4. Lindsey's team is coached by a staff that appears to be either not able to effectively communicate offensive and defensive complexities, or unwilling to police their own agenda.

    So, while Lindsey does have a lot of chips and good contracts at his disposal, he is trying to address a series of holes, any one of which can significantly deplete your resources. I think it is unrealistic for all these things to change. The easiest ones to address are the coaching and the commitment to defense (since we already have most of these tools). I guess we gotta just hope one of our guys develops offensively, or we get lucky in free agency or in next year's draft.
    Last edited by NAOS; 12-02-2012 at 02:13 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Cyrone Torbin's Avatar
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    Don't forget the fact that we still allow a very high 3pt%.
    'Merican League Consensus (kind of) PWR RANKS

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  3. #3
    Senior Member jope's Avatar
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    Just about all the problems you addressed are mainly controlled by coaching, and not as much by personnel. If boozer can be a part of a league best defense year after year then you know it must be above the individuals and on the team philosophies (coaching). Same goes for our offensive short comings

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  5. #4
    Senior Member mellow's Avatar
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    Nice thoughts Naos. I gotta run, but wanted to add a few quick shots.

    I don't know if I were Lindsey if I would have taken the Utah job, then again its nearly impossible to get fired in the Jazz organization so....

    Jazz are rebuilding while trying to win-- I call it the Milwaukee Bucks model, and look how successful they are year after year.

    I don't believe Lindsey has ever had to rebuild a team, but hey how hard can it be?

    The good news is that Jazzfanz won't have to wait long to find out if Lindsey is any good. Only 5 players are under contract for next season.

    My thoughts on defense....Jazz were long ago fooled into believing that Jerry was a great defensive coach. So they bought into his philosophies. Ty is just regurging Jerry. I'm not sure if Jerry's philosophies worked in teh late 80's because of the style of play (fewer 3pt shots, illegal defense rules, and every team had atleast one anemic. offensive guy) or if Jerry bennifited from Mark Eaton Standing behind the quick hands and determintation of Karl and John. Either way the jazz have since confused diving on teh floor and hard fouls for defense.
    The book I want to write: From Showtime to spreadsheet - How analytics killed the NBA.

  6. #5
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    In my view a lot would change with one of two things....

    1. Things will change when Al and Millsap are gone. Sorry but Millsap is not an average to above average defender. There is no defense when those two are in the game. At least with Al we know most of the time he will give effort on offense, Millsap just seems to be going through the motions and doesn't seem to care.

    2. Things would change if Coach Ty was fired. He has experimented with different lineups, he's tried everything except the most painfully obvious choice, bench Millsap. Also. In years past we've had players that just suck at defense, but with the jazz you knew they would be physical and play hard. This year that's not the case. Don't get me wrong we do have a few guys that do compete, Favors, Hayward, Carroll, and Kanter. I think part of this falls on Corbin. Either he's lost the players respect, can't or won't motivate, no discipline.

    These are the things holding us back from improving, in my opinion.

  7. #6
    Senior Member sojodave's Avatar
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    The Jazz fiscal cliff is the trade deadline. If we go past the trade deadline without moving either Sap or Big Al, this will prove to me that Lindsey is not going to be our savior. I can't imagine having our two starting bigs expire at the end of the year. Like it or not, the Jazz are married to Corbin. I don't think KOC would ever change Ty, but maybe Lindsey may have a different opinion.

    I'm personally tired of rooting for the Jazz to achieve mediocrity every year. The Lakers wouldn't put up with Mike Brown and his offensive philosophy, the Jazz front office seems to accept that Ty is going to achieve maybe an 8th seed. The big plan is to improve within. What happens if Hayward, Favors, Kanter, and Burks don't improve dramatically. We will have years of mediocrity if internal improvement doesn't happen. The big question still remains, will the Jazz front office do something about Sap and Big Al before the trade deadline...stay tuned!

  8. #7
    Senior Member Hack's Avatar
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    I dont believe that Lindsey has the power to make the changes we look for. I think Jazz fans mistakenly believe that we have a new GM. I think all we got was an assistant GM. KOC has pretty much said so himself in the interviews after the hire. Everything I heard was that KOC got himself a partner. Maybe years down the road Lindsey will have full control, but for now, I think KOC still has to approve of what Lindsey wants to do. I think KOC's finger prints will remain on this team for years to come. Which means more of the same. Which means more mediocrity because of the overly conservative approach. I dont think KOC would have hired him either unless he felt he could groom him to do things his way.

    I believe that we wont even see anything different from Dennis Lindsey. I think its going to feel like KOC is still running the team.

    If I am wrong about this, then somebody please tell me what it is that KOC does now, and why you think we wont see the same GM style as we see with KOC.

    I predict that we dont make any trades this year. We also re-sign Al Jefferson. We stick with Ty Corbin for at least ten years. And we continue down the road of mediocrity and not giving a rats ass about defense.

  9. #8
    Senior Member candrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    2. The jazz continue to foul too much.
    This fact, while nothing new, has one twist that is down right horrifying. Jazz are 5th in the league in fouls commited per game. And yet they are dead LAST in defending the paint.

    If The Jazz were fouling to make players earn it at the line, that would be one thing. But to commit 22 fouls per game while failing to defend the rim night in and night out - that is just awful.

  10. #9
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    Remember when we all thought this would be the year we were showcasing our young talent league-wide and thus helping ourselves lure a big FA this summer? **** y'all.

  11. #10
    Senior Member CitizenofCapua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    2. The jazz continue to foul too much.
    Nice post generally but i want to add something to that part. To be a better deffensive team making fouls due to stop easy buckets is pretty important;

    e.g. lets take a look at this;


    You have to make a foul there, why you hesitating? It's not like we don't have a deep big man rotation, take advantage of it.. Don't let them gain momentum and let them shoot FT's..

    It must be a reflex and habituation but unfortunately its hard to break the bad, old habits of veterans.
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  12. #11
    Senior Member jope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenofCapua View Post
    Nice post generally but i want to add something to that part. To be a better deffensive team making fouls due to stop easy buckets is pretty important;

    e.g. lets take a look at this;


    You have to make a foul there, why you hesitating? It's not like we don't have a deep big man rotation, take advantage of it.. Don't let them gain momentum and let them shoot FT's..

    It must be a reflex and habituation but unfortunately its hard to break the bad, old habits of veterans.
    You have to do something, anything besides just swiveling watching your man blow right past you

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    Remember when we all thought this would be the year we were showcasing our young talent league-wide and thus helping ourselves lure a big FA this summer? **** y'all.
    And who is exactly this potential big FA for the Jazz? Jennings, Bynum, Iguodala? The potential 2013 pickings are extremely slim, to be honest.

  14. #13
    Senior Member Weezur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doubledribble View Post
    And who is exactly this potential big FA for the Jazz? Jennings, Bynum, Iguodala? The potential 2013 pickings are extremely slim, to be honest.
    Bledsoe?

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weezur View Post
    Bledsoe?
    He is an RFA in 2014, so no. Here is the list, it is not pretty: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/...ents-2012-2013

  16. #15
    Senior Member Weezur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doubledribble View Post
    He is an RFA in 2014, so no. Here is the list, it is not pretty: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/...ents-2012-2013
    Damn

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