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  1. #16
    In pursuit of #9 PKM's Avatar
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    Yeah, we're sunk.
    #dumptruckin

  2. #17
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doubledribble View Post
    And who is exactly this potential big FA for the Jazz? Jennings, Bynum, Iguodala? The potential 2013 pickings are extremely slim, to be honest.
    Bynum, Favors, Iggy would be an good core. I can dream...
    No Mediocrity

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    Bynum, Favors, Iggy would be an good core. I can dream...
    Defensively that lineup would be solid but since Bynum is hurt more than Curtis Bortchart and Iggy is overrated offensively, I think this board would have exploded by now.

  4. #19
    Senior Member LunaticWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sojodave View Post
    The Lakers wouldn't put up with Mike Brown and his offensive philosophy, the Jazz front office seems to accept that Ty is going to achieve maybe an 8th seed.
    You say that as we sit in the 6th seed after a road-heavy stretch, with 3 of our losses coming against the best teams in the league?

    You guys are too funny.
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

  5. #20
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaticWolf View Post
    You say that as we sit in the 6th seed after a road-heavy stretch, with 3 of our losses coming against the best teams in the league?

    You guys are too funny.
    How funny is the OP? Nice to see a total of zero apologists engaging with it.
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  6. #21
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thee jazz fan View Post
    In my view a lot would change with one of two things....

    1. Things will change when Al and Millsap are gone. Sorry but Millsap is not an average to above average defender. There is no defense when those two are in the game. At least with Al we know most of the time he will give effort on offense, Millsap just seems to be going through the motions and doesn't seem to care.

    2. Things would change if Coach Ty was fired. He has experimented with different lineups, he's tried everything except the most painfully obvious choice, bench Millsap. Also. In years past we've had players that just suck at defense, but with the jazz you knew they would be physical and play hard. This year that's not the case. Don't get me wrong we do have a few guys that do compete, Favors, Hayward, Carroll, and Kanter. I think part of this falls on Corbin. Either he's lost the players respect, can't or won't motivate, no discipline.

    These are the things holding us back from improving, in my opinion.
    Millsap has been an above average defender from a holistic perspective on defense. The 2short4ballzlolz crowd has just been wrong. If Millsap is struggling a bit right now, then it might have something to do with the fact that he can feel dwindling support despite working to get better every ****ing year. . . for so many years I'm still impressed. Love that dude.
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  7. #22
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    Bynum, Favors, Iggy would be an good core. I can dream...
    What, no FIRE^99 comments?
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  8. #23
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    What, no FIRE^99 comments?
    I like the direction you are pushing things, always pushing things.
    No Mediocrity

  9. #24
    Senior Member LunaticWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    How funny is the OP? Nice to see a total of zero apologists engaging with it.
    You didn't really say anything that can be engaged with.

    You made 2 statements that can't really be argued, and didn't provide any solutions that can be argued over.

    Then you make an abstract claim in #3 that you, as an armchair coach, really couldn't know anything about.

    Followed with a claim that the coaches don't communicate. I'm ecstatic that you know everything that goes on in the locker room and behind the closed doors. Care to share some more?

    PS That high effeciency closer you're talking about? That is Al.
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

  10. #25
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaticWolf View Post
    You didn't really say anything that can be engaged with.

    You made 2 statements that can't really be argued, and didn't provide any solutions that can be argued over.

    Then you make an abstract claim in #3 that you, as an armchair coach, really couldn't know anything about.

    Followed with a claim that the coaches don't communicate. I'm ecstatic that you know everything that goes on in the locker room and behind the closed doors. Care to share some more?

    PS That high effeciency closer you're talking about? That is Al.
    lulz. Read much?
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  12. #26
    Senior Member Thee jazz fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doubledribble View Post
    He is an RFA in 2014, so no. Here is the list, it is not pretty: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/...ents-2012-2013
    It's not like the Clips are going to spend too much on a backup pg. He's definitely someone that we can realistically get.
    Quote Originally Posted by sojodave View Post
    The Jazz fiscal cliff is the trade deadline. If we go past the trade deadline without moving either Sap or Big Al, this will prove to me that Lindsey is not going to be our savior. I can't imagine having our two starting bigs expire at the end of the year. Like it or not, the Jazz are married to Corbin. I don't think KOC would ever change Ty, but maybe Lindsey may have a different opinion.

    I'm personally tired of rooting for the Jazz to achieve mediocrity every year. The Lakers wouldn't put up with Mike Brown and his offensive philosophy, the Jazz front office seems to accept that Ty is going to achieve maybe an 8th seed. The big plan is to improve within. What happens if Hayward, Favors, Kanter, and Burks don't improve dramatically. We will have years of mediocrity if internal improvement doesn't happen. The big question still remains, will the Jazz front office do something about Sap and Big Al before the trade deadline...stay tuned!
    I don't agree with this. It's possible the jazz may keep both for the year, and let them expire. I ask what's wrong with that? Maybe they feel they can get better value through free agency. We don't know what kind of discussions they've had with other teams and what they're willing to give in return. If the jazz kept both beyond then I'd agree with you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hack View Post
    I dont believe that Lindsey has the power to make the changes we look for. I think Jazz fans mistakenly believe that we have a new GM. I think all we got was an assistant GM. KOC has pretty much said so himself in the interviews after the hire. Everything I heard was that KOC got himself a partner. Maybe years down the road Lindsey will have full control, but for now, I think KOC still has to approve of what Lindsey wants to do. I think KOC's finger prints will remain on this team for years to come. Which means more of the same. Which means more mediocrity because of the overly conservative approach. I dont think KOC would have hired him either unless he felt he could groom him to do things his way.

    I believe that we wont even see anything different from Dennis Lindsey. I think its going to feel like KOC is still running the team.

    If I am wrong about this, then somebody please tell me what it is that KOC does now, and why you think we wont see the same GM style as we see with KOC.

    I predict that we dont make any trades this year. We also re-sign Al Jefferson. We stick with Ty Corbin for at least ten years. And we continue down the road of mediocrity and not giving a rats ass about defense.
    I've been wondering the same thing. I think the Millers are happy with KOC, and so likewise why would the Millers take those responsibilities away from him, but with the added responsibilities of being President, Lindsey might be just a glorified figure head who reports and gives his input to KOC.
    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    Millsap has been an above average defender from a holistic perspective on defense.The 2short4ballzlolz crowd has just been wrong. If Millsap is struggling a bit right now, then it might have something to do with the fact that he can feel dwindling support despite working to get better every ****ing year. . . for so many years I'm still impressed. Love that dude.
    We live in a time of what have you done for me lately, and what I see now is a guy who isn't giving his all, and in a contract year. If he really wanted to be here next year, he'd look like he gave a damn instead of looking like he's going through the motions. I understand that he's been a hard worker through his career here, but I'm extremely disappointed in his performance this year. I'd also like him to be more of a team player. He doesn't seem to root on his teammates like he should, all be it this is just speculation as I only see what they show on tv. We always here stories of Al and others taking the youngsters under their wing, but we don't really hear this about Millsap. And then there's his unwillingness to except a bench roll like Hayward has, even though he would thrive there.

  13. #27
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    How funny is the OP? Nice to see a total of zero apologists engaging with it.
    If you must have something to argue about...

    Jazz are 2nd in the league in FGA, and 3rd in ppg, assists, & FTA. It looks like the offense is running pretty damn well. 9th overall in ppg.

    The problem is shooting all around. Making open shots would change perspectives on how well this team is operating.

    Tip ins and putbacks are a big problem. Kanter, Sap, & Favors are horrible & need to pass back out and reset.

    14th in the league in FT%. If you're going to get to the line so much then take advantage. The Jazz should be comfortable enough at the line to move up to top 8.

    Way too many jump shots taken with poor results. If they can't start hitting wide open shots then Al Jefferson's useage needs to go back up 3-4 possessions per game.

    Jazz look great in blocks, steals, and rebounds. They play well enough defense in the 0-15 second range but have an overcompensating style that allows teams high efficiency in the 16-20 second range. If they're going to force scramble buckets then they need to rotate better so they aren't so wide open. Either that or get more turnovers early on to compensate.
    No Mediocrity

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    Bynum, Favors, Iggy would be an good core. I can dream...
    Why would you want Bynum? The guy has knees of a 60 year old man.

  15. #29
    Senior Member mellow's Avatar
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    The reality of Lindseys new JoB?

    He came on board at the end of the second summer of what was supposed to be a 2 year rebuilding project. The roster was essentially set, the coach was set, the team goals were set (first round at all costs). The only thing he had to choose was which office to take.

    The biggest obstacles he faced were Raja Bell and the logjam pf spot. Both issues are still unresolved.

    But no worries, the Jazz are playing mediocre Basketball and are lined up for the 6th seed and the 17th pick. That paired with the mystical Golden State Pick (curently 23) the jazz will reload next summer when all but 5 of the players become free agents.

    Go Jazz.
    If the ball doesn't move, you will be on the bench! -DOL

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenofCapua View Post
    Nice post generally but i want to add something to that part. To be a better deffensive team making fouls due to stop easy buckets is pretty important;

    e.g. lets take a look at this;


    You have to make a foul there, why you hesitating? It's not like we don't have a deep big man rotation, take advantage of it.. Don't let them gain momentum and let them shoot FT's..

    It must be a reflex and habituation but unfortunately its hard to break the bad, old habits of veterans.
    Not only did Al do nothing to stop the drive, he actually helped it by screening off Watson.

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