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  1. #16
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    Couple responses to legitimate questions asked:

    Yes, I am still for Gasol considering his injuries. First off he has never had any serious injury and I think these may be much to do about nothing. I personally think they will be dealing him in the next few days and that is why they are sitting him (I could obviously be wrong about this), but I just think the situation has reached a tipping point. Think about what he has had to endure the last couple years: He was all world under Phil Jackson during their last finals run, then they have a coaching change and Bynum surges to push him to the high post PF position. Now he lost his position because he could play both more than the fact that Bynum was better... Gasol is just more versatile. Then they trade him last year and Stern nixes that. Then the fan base blames him when anything doesn't work out for the team. They don't criticize Kobe because he is God, and they didn't criticize Bynum cause he is young and up and coming. This year has been more of the same, with another coaching change and Pau getting all the blame because the fan base wants to resign Howard and Kobe is still God.

    In general I don't think Euro guys need to have the glitz and glammar of the big city. I think they are fine with a sedentary life style of places like Utah, Milwakee and SA. Who was the last Euro to demand a trade to a big city or complain about being in a small market? There may be one, but I can't think of it.

    Pau by now has got to be so sick and tired of Kobe chucking up 30 shots a game. I am sure it has taken massive amounts of patience to deal with Kobe's petulance. I think he likes the rich club throwing big money his way, but the big money part of his career is over. I think he would relish the chance to return to form and stick it down the Lakers throat who tried to trade him by going back to his normal self. I think he wants a legacy greater than being Kobe's All Star sidekick. I think he will return to dominance. His drop off??? Sure he could be slipping, but I think it is more psychological than age or health.... Look at Paul Millsap... turning down a good extension in the off-season and now he is thinking too much and he is totally off his game. Last year he was 3rd in PER at this point, this year he is losing value by the day.

    As far as the Teague trade proposal that wasn't mine, but I think it was a well thought out trade and Teague is the kind of player we should be pursuing. On the other hand I agree that Teague will not be made available by Atlanta. My whole approach to proposing big trades that help the Jazz always keeps in mind the other teams motivation. There is no motivation for the Hawks to trade Teague, just like there is no motivation for the Blazers to trade Lillard etc.

    So when I take a look at the market place for players that the Jazz need, and specifically when looking for a young PG I ask myself why the opposing team would do a trade. The team I see that would do a trade is either Milwakee (Jennings) or more specifically the Clippers of Bledsoe. First, Milwakee was the one team with a young pg (Curry, Lawson, Holiday) who didn't re up their PG and they probably didn't do that for a reason... perhaps they feel like the market was too rich for him this year and he needs to prove he can shoot... 40% doesn't cut it as a PG. I think with one more year in the league he will either have his market come down to where he should be signed, or he won't... but the Jazz would be wise to stay away from a guy that shoots 38-40% and who says he wants to go to a big city.

    Bledsoe is possible but only after they resign Chris Paul. If Chris Paul resigns they will quickly ship out Bledsoe (my expectation is next summer) for a young prospect or picks. Until the Clippers resign Paul there is no motivation to ship out Bledsoe, but as soon as Paul resigns the Clippers will realize they will not be able to hang onto their guy. His value will continue to jump this season and unless Bledsoe is stupid or his agent is, they won't extend this summer on the cheap. I think the Jazz are in a good position to get him if they do a couple things: #1 get Burks rolling... he is the kind of player the Clippers would covet if he starts to show something... A Burks and Future 1st should do it and then the Jazz extend Bledsoe for 4/$32M. Again this would be the Jazz ahead of the curve on a player, and the Clippers acting wisely. I could also see sending Kanter to them for Bledsoe. To get something of value we have to give value.

    If a good young PG prospect like Bledsoe isn't available you don't settle for mediocre players on big money contracts. That is what you do if you sign MO/AL/or Paul.. Don't tie your hands with long term bad deals.

    If they can't get Bledsoe or the draft doesn't render a high end PG pick.. the Jazz should take on the last year of Ridnour, or sign Maynor to a $3M deal and re up Watson. Just don't whatever you do sign the wrong player to big money because they are the one available.
    Last edited by blackham9258; 12-05-2012 at 09:37 AM.

  2. #17
    Senior Member bjunior's Avatar
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    Do something. I want to watch Jazz games again.

  3. #18
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    "Trading for Gasol means no major free agent signings" There are only two free agents next year: Chris Paul and Dwight Howard. If you believe either are coming here you are mistaken. Doing a Gasol deal is our free agency 7 months in advance. It also prevents us from settling for Al or Paul and Mo.

  4. #19
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    I think trading for Gasol, especially if we don't have to give up our young talents is a great idea. Yes he has a large contract and he is older but 32 years old isn't that old for a big man.

    Al and Gasol fit in the same spot on our offense. We would need to move Jefferson in a separate deal or work some kind of 3 team trade. They don't work together.

    I think the Lakers have interest in Millsap and Bell. Maybe they could use Marvin or not.

    On the secondary deals, I don't think Bledsoe will be available for anything less than one of young talents and a 1st round pick. He might be worth that.

    I don't want any part of Jennings.

    Minnesota might want Marvin Williams. They have a bunch of point guards.
    Build a man a fire; keep him warm for a day. Light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of this life.

    Repeating the same actions and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

  5. #20
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    Like I said, Jazz shouldn't pursue Jennings. My point is when you look at the market place you have to see the motivation for the other team. Milwakee "MIGHT COULD" be willing to get rid of their young PG, but we wouldn't want him because their reasons for letting him go are basketball related first and money related as well.

    Bledsoe on the other hand will be a restricted free agent after next season (2014) and if the clippers resign CP3 they will want to get something good for him this summer and allow the acquiring team to lock him up a little cheaper than lose him for nothing in restricted free agency the following summer.

    One thing has to happen for this all to occur... Burks and Kanter need to develop.

    In a perfect world: Millsap/Mo/Raja or Millsap/Marvin/ Raja happens to get Pau Gasol

    In the next two months Kanter starts to blow up as Favors nurses his arch... and while this is happening Portland begins to tank and decides to go young with their team and shed LMA. We send Jefferson/Kanter plus one of our picks for LMA/Hickson.

    Then Burks starts to blossom the rest of the season to the point that he is sufficient to get Bledsoe in the off season with a pick.

    Next year:

    Bledsoe/Watson
    Hayward/Foye
    Marvin/Carrol
    LMA/Favors
    Gasol/Favors

    We then either keep that together for 1 year and decide who to keep long term as we decide if Favors injury is going to be chronic, but a 3 man big rotation gives each player 32 minutes a night. Then we extend Gasol if he is back to stardom and we ship LMA for a top pick in 2014. Options Options Options.

    We have the assets to get these deals done if we want.

  6. #21
    Senior Member bjunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackham9258 View Post
    We have the assets to get these deals done if we want.
    Tomorrow I'll order nba2k13. I see this stuff is good.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackham9258 View Post
    Like I said, Jazz shouldn't pursue Jennings. My point is when you look at the market place you have to see the motivation for the other team. Milwakee "MIGHT COULD" be willing to get rid of their young PG, but we wouldn't want him because their reasons for letting him go are basketball related first and money related as well.

    Bledsoe on the other hand will be a restricted free agent after next season (2014) and if the clippers resign CP3 they will want to get something good for him this summer and allow the acquiring team to lock him up a little cheaper than lose him for nothing in restricted free agency the following summer.

    One thing has to happen for this all to occur... Burks and Kanter need to develop.

    In a perfect world: Millsap/Mo/Raja or Millsap/Marvin/ Raja happens to get Pau Gasol

    In the next two months Kanter starts to blow up as Favors nurses his arch... and while this is happening Portland begins to tank and decides to go young with their team and shed LMA. We send Jefferson/Kanter plus one of our picks for LMA/Hickson.

    Then Burks starts to blossom the rest of the season to the point that he is sufficient to get Bledsoe in the off season with a pick.

    Next year:

    Bledsoe/Watson
    Hayward/Foye
    Marvin/Carrol
    LMA/Favors
    Gasol/Favors

    We then either keep that together for 1 year and decide who to keep long term as we decide if Favors injury is going to be chronic, but a 3 man big rotation gives each player 32 minutes a night. Then we extend Gasol if he is back to stardom and we ship LMA for a top pick in 2014. Options Options Options.

    We have the assets to get these deals done if we want.
    Your post started out fine but now you have added a lot of IFs. Why would the Jazz want to ship out Kanter if he starts to produce/blows up? Why would Portland traded away LMA who is their best player? Yes I know the Jazz will be templed to re-sign AJ or Millsap but they don't have to re-sign them. They can just start playing the two young guys who will have more experience and be ready to step up next year or at least contribute without the severe growing pains. Then you said the Jazz could re-sign a 34-35 year old Gasol instead of re-signing AJ (28 years next year) or Millsap who is entering his prime. Hmm! Do you think Gasol is going to take a huge paycut to re-sign with the Jazz? Neither AJ or Millsap will cost as much. The reality is that both Millsap and AJ are slightly worse than Gasol at a much lower price.

    The real problem is that if the Lakers want Millsap then the Jazz have a lineup of Gasol and AJ. Personally speaking that would be a disaster defensively and most likely offensively because both Gasol and AJ want to play down low. The other scenario is to play Favors at the PF position and either start AJ or Gasol. Unfortunately that would lead to one of them being upset about coming off the bench. The nice thing is that Kanter could be the backup PF instead of the center.

    Another reality, is the Lakers cannot provide the Jazz with anything good to take on the Contract of Gasol. A third team would need to be involved so the Jazz could get picks. I personally think the Jazz would be dumb not to trade AJ or Millsap if the Jazz are not in the playoff hunt (which is a possibility the way the team is playing and how hard the Western conference is). I just don't think taking on Gasol at this stage of his career is a smart financial and basketball move. I would be more willing to do it if the Jazz got a few picks (Lakers don't have) or a young stud (LA does not have).

    Another concern is that Gasol is on his last legs or he won't want to re-sign with Utah because the Jazz will not be contenders in two years. I wouldn't want to re-sign him but the Jazz might consider another contract with Pau considering how they love re-sign washed up players.

  8. #23
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    We need to decide who are going to be our long term leaders. IMO Jefferson and Millsap have taken us as far as we can go with them as the leaders. So we could bring one of them back to be our 3rd big. Jefferson is likely going to be too expensive. Paul's contract is going to be between Carl Landry's 10 mil for 2 years and Taj Gibson's.

    This year is a part of Jefferson's and Millsap's prime years. They aren't going to get better. Maybe a little smarter but not better.

    Do we have any All-Star Caliber players? I don't see Hayward ever becoming that good. You can't get your spot taking by Randy Foye and be an All-star.

    Favors still has a chance but I don't see enough offensive improvement to make it likely.

    Maybe Kanter's skill level will continue to increase to a all-star level but I think his athletic abilities will limit him as a finisher.

    Maybe Burks can become a great offensive player but his jumper isn't there and he hasn't be getting to the rim.

    So where does that leave us?

    The "Detroit Piston" model has two great defensive bigs in Rasheed and Ben Wallace. An elite perimeter defender in Prince and two borderline all-star guards in Billups and Rip.

    I think Kanter and Favors could be almost as good as Rasheed and Ben Wallace overall (not defensive-total package). I see Prince and Rip Hamiliton as superior to Hayward and Burks.

    And we have a gaping hole at PG in future.

    We need some major restructuring of our team. And that means trading the players with real trade value.
    Build a man a fire; keep him warm for a day. Light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of this life.

    Repeating the same actions and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

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  10. #24
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    I was just playing with that LMA stuff and all the what ifs, but this is the kind of strategizing smart teams make. They see what opportunities could potentially come about and they work things ahead of time. Sometimes what you see on the horizon as a potential situation coming available never materializes. Sometimes it does but your team can't make the deal. Its important to be ready for any possibilities. The Jazz did this work for the Deron trade. They were first willing to move him the minute he signed a 3 year deal instead of a 5 year deal. That is the most important thing sometimes, is to not get too attached to your players.

    The next was to look at what the market would bear... Denver did all of our leg work and we benefitted when that didn't happen.

    I just think we have gone as far as we can with Jefferson Millsap and we need to not make the mistake of resigning them to long term expensive deals.

  11. #25
    Senior Member Catchall's Avatar
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    Jefferson puts up better numbers than Gasol, at least judging by last season and this season.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackham9258 View Post
    I think he wants a legacy greater than being Kobe's All Star sidekick. I think he will return to dominance. His drop off??? Sure he could be slipping, but I think it is more psychological than age or health....
    So you are saying we will get yet another big crying 19mil/year soft player to replace AK?
    Where to sign up?

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