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  1. #31
    Senior Member LazyD's Avatar
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    I still think he has a fairly high ceiling because he can improve in so many areas. Mainly ball-handling and shooting, both spot-up and off the dribble. Those two things and then finishing around the basket would make him a very good player. Then get him and favors in the pick and roll, and him and kanter in the pick and pop potentially. Why isn't burks rubbing off the guy in the post on the baseline for a handoff opportunity like the jazz used to do? Seems like a perfect role for him

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyD View Post
    I still think he has a fairly high ceiling because he can improve in so many areas. Mainly ball-handling and shooting, both spot-up and off the dribble. Those two things and then finishing around the basket would make him a very good player. Then get him and favors in the pick and roll, and him and kanter in the pick and pop potentially. Why isn't burks rubbing off the guy in the post on the baseline for a handoff opportunity like the jazz used to do? Seems like a perfect role for him
    Most players don't improve very much on their core skills after their 3 years. I don't think Hayward is going to become much more than he is now. He is a good useful player but never a star.
    Build a man a fire; keep him warm for a day. Light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of this life.

    Repeating the same actions and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

  3. #33
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    I've given up on him ever being a finisher in traffic. But, if you have to deeply respect his 3-pnt shot (which he has all the mechanics to do, etc.) and he develops a good scoring offense around the PnR (which he most certainly can do if the offense helps him a bit more + with repetition), then he can become much better.

  4. #34
    Senior Member JJAS's Avatar
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    His ceiling:

    Take an AK47 but less dominant defensively (particularly blocks and his defensive versatility), combine with Manu, and Harden. Then give him a ball that has a tack jammed in it to make it bounce crookedly. Take away the ability to consistently create off of the dribble, and finally take away the general activity of these players in most aspects of the game. This is who Hayward is.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJAS View Post
    His ceiling:

    Take an AK47 but less dominant defensively (particularly blocks and his defensive versatility), combine with Manu, and Harden. Then give him a ball that has a tack jammed in it to make it bounce crookedly. Take away the ability to consistently create off of the dribble, and finally take away the general activity of these players in most aspects of the game. This is who Hayward is.
    For old time's sake, can you explain the production of this player in neo-punk Marxist terms?

    Thanks in advance.

  6. #36
    Senior Member JGolds's Avatar
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    i think we still havent seen what gordons limit is. i think untill you have a player on the floor that can compliment haywards strengths, we wont see it. he needs abig man who knows how to seta screen adn roll aka pick and roll.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member AKMVP's Avatar
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    Poor man's Harpring with better passing and worse rebounding. Said that 2 years ago and still looks the same.
    "People do not want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed" - Friedrich Nietzsche.

  8. #38
    Senior Member JGolds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKMVP View Post
    Poor man's Harpring with better passing and worse rebounding. Said that 2 years ago and still looks the same.
    even if that is all he amounts too, (and i think he will achieve more) evey team needs a harpring on it.
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  10. #39
    Senior Member LazyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qman View Post
    Most players don't improve very much on their core skills after their 3 years. I don't think Hayward is going to become much more than he is now. He is a good useful player but never a star.
    Says who? All great players seem to improve almost every off-season in some areas. Were you blind to the progression of the 2 greatest Jazzer's of all-time? I think the Jazz may have anticipated Gordon to have a much more intense work ethic than he apparently has. If most players don't improve much on these skills after 3 years like you say it is because they are not trying very hard to do so. They become role players like Gordon is. Great players improve their game constantly because they work harder than everybody else.

  11. #40
    Senior Member JGolds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyD View Post
    Says who? All great players seem to improve almost every off-season in some areas. Were you blind to the progression of the 2 greatest Jazzer's of all-time? I think the Jazz may have anticipated Gordon to have a much more intense work ethic than he apparently has. If most players don't improve much on these skills after 3 years like you say it is because they are not trying very hard to do so. They become role players like Gordon is. Great players improve their game constantly because they work harder than everybody else.
    yeah!! i think even karl malone took a little while to reach his dominant peak!
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  12. #41
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    Don't forget that he had to deal with little playing time under Sloan, and then the whole D-Wil/Sloan mess that messed up the team...and a shortened off season with a new coach...give him time, he is only 22

  13. #42
    Senior Member Jazz4ever's Avatar
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    It all comes down to his shooting. He obviously has to raise his percentage, but also work on a faster release. 18/5/5 is probably where he'll max out at. Which would be damn good ROI for a 9th pick.

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
    Did you not see the 4 games we "used Hayward like Harden" coming off the bench about 2 weeks ago? It was a disastrophe.
    Re read what I said...

    Put Harden on this team as a rookie and I doubt he's as good. As he is now. Take away Durant and Westbrook and those guys and give him Al and Sap with lesser offensive guys like Favors and Kanter and those guys and Harden struggles as the guy who handles the ball. Think about it Millsap is going through the motions and not even Deron could make Al a better player. Not sure why you think his ball handling is weak. To me they look fine. Add to the fact they have no direction on offense. Put Hayward on OKC and he becomes much better.

  15. #44
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    Your normal height. Certainly not vaulted.

  16. #45
    Senior Member jope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crawlnstall View Post
    Don't forget that he had to deal with little playing time under Sloan, and then the whole D-Wil/Sloan mess that messed up the team...and a shortened off season with a new coach...give him time, he is only 22
    we are all getting numb to this with our grip of young players.

    hayward, (the oldest of the 4) still has 6-7 MORE seasons until he's even in his prime. lots of room to improve.

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