Mormons and Gays.

[JAG]

Yes, but I think BabyPeterzz' main point was that the true injustice is taking away someone's opportunity to have sexual relations. The members you described at least have that, even if you're correct in that they experience the same struggle of going through life without sex due to their inability to find a spouse.

I suppose I agree with that point there but both as you pointed out, experience the same struggles. The LDS church believes that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God in part because it gives the couple to ability to procreate. Two parent families, and specifically a mother and a father raising their children is what the LDS church believes is best for its members if it is possible. I do not see a time in the future when the LDS will change its position so the only thing it can do is try to help its members live up to its standards it has set.

[spycam1]

I suppose I agree with that point there but both as you pointed out, experience the same struggles. The LDS church believes that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God in part because it gives the couple to ability to procreate. Two parent families, and specifically a mother and a father raising their children is what the LDS church believes is best for its members if it is possible. I do not see a time in the future when the LDS will change its position so the only thing it can do is try to help its members live up to its standards it has set.

Yes, I agree that the LDS Church's position on homosexuality is of sound logic within the context of its own doctrines.

[The Black Swordsman]

I believe in equal rights for gays. Just like I have the right to marry a woman a gay should also have that right to marry a woman, no more no less

[addictionary]

have to say, I've misread the title "Mormons are gay".

and they are gay, if you mean the primary meaning "cheerful-joyful-happy" by gay.

[One Brow]

So how do psychologists draw that prepubescent-postpubescent line?

I don't understand why you think this is a question. You can't tell the difference between a prepubescent and a postpubscent boy? You don't think age of consent laws apply?

Female changes seem so much more pronounced to me. Maybe that's just because I'm a guy, I don't know.

Even as a straight guy, I can tell that my sons friend look different at 19 than they did at fifteen. Shoulders grow out, hair thickens, etc. I agree that if I were sexually interested in men, I'd know the markers even better.

[One Brow]

Your question is operating from the assumption that I think two men should be allowed to adopt children together, an opinion I do not necessarily share. So it just doesn't make much sense.

Even today, some men get married, have kids, and then wind up divorced/widowed and in committed homosexuals unions. Some men are bisexual, and have kids out of wedlock, and for various reasons wind up being the primary parent. Adoption is a separate issue. I was thinking more along the line of step-parents. If my wife dies, I remarry, and then I die, my second wife will be able to care for kids as a parent. Legally, that's can't happen easily for two men or two women.

To reiterate the point I was making, if you take heterosexual sex out of the marriage equation (something that I feel certainly *does* belong in marriage, and has since time immemorial, to the extent that having a non-consummated marriage is grounds for annulment in most states), then why leave sex in the equation at all? You might be one of the few who believe that two non-gay roommates should be allowed to marry, but even if so, most don't share that view.

OK. However, that doesn't really answer my question of what further reason you would need to allow two men to get married, beyond the ones I have stated. To be clear, that places no onus on you. I accept tha this was your last post.

[NAOS]

Let's imagine a world where nobody is screwing anybody.............................



















and I'm not talking about intercourse.
That means y'all up the moral high horse need to step the **** down.

[Hartsock]

I really don't want to start one of THOSE threads again, but...

I have NEVER heard a decent argument FOR it. The arguments for all boil down to "people should be able to marry whoever they want". To me, though, that's clearly not a reasonable argument because the vast majority of people in this country (including those who support gay marriage) are against incestuous marriages, polygamous marriages, non-sexual marriages (think "blood brothers", etc.).

1-14 of Jgolds list of pros and cons are all pretty good logical reasons for allowing gay marriage. For what its worth polygamy should be legal also, as long as they arent marrying 12 year olds I dont see the problem. Incestuous relationships are illegal becuase of the harm it can do to the offspring, so lets keep that illegal. non sexual marriages though does anyone really care about that ?

[Stoked]

Let's imagine a world where nobody is screwing anybody.............................

and I'm not talking about intercourse.
That means y'all up the moral high horse need to step the **** down.

To me those on their moral high horses are just as bad as those that feel I have to accept them because they are gay or some other such nonsense.

[franklin]

I don't understand why you think this is a question. You can't tell the difference between a prepubescent and a postpubscent boy? You don't think age of consent laws apply?

Even as a straight guy, I can tell that my sons friend look different at 19 than they did at fifteen. Shoulders grow out, hair thickens, etc. I agree that if I were sexually interested in men, I'd know the markers even better.

Thanks for the responses. I read half the following page and it explained the psychological aspects well enough for me: http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbo...lestation.html

[NAOS]

To me those on their moral high horses are just as bad as those that feel I have to accept them because they are gay or some other such nonsense.

Back up from "acceptance" to an earlier point in the encounter with somebody... Now imagine recognizing the person as something other than a thing to be accepted or not accepted.... since, obviously any person is much more than that thing. Find the other stuff; be inspired by it.

There you go. Tip #1 on how to not be a douchenozzle.

[Stoked]

Back up from "acceptance" to an earlier point in the encounter with somebody... Now imagine recognizing the person as something other than a thing to be accepted or not accepted.... since, obviously any person is much more than that thing. Find the other stuff; be inspired by it.

There you go. Tip #1 on how to not be a douchenozzle.

You might want to get off your own high horse before you complain about others sitting on theirs.

I am for gay marriage. However I do nto have to accept someone because they are gay. That is what I have been presented with numerous times. It is a bunch of malarkey. I do not have to accept them because they are gay anymore than they have to accept me because I am straight.

Keep in mind I support full an equal rights for all people regardless of sexual orientation. However the notion that because someone is gay and I therefore have to have a blanket acceptance of everything theyis crap. They are not askign for equal treatment then but special treatment. Hell no.

[Scat]

Back up from "acceptance" to an earlier point in the encounter with somebody... Now imagine recognizing the person as something other than a thing to be accepted or not accepted.... since, obviously any person is much more than that thing. Find the other stuff; be inspired by it.

There you go. Tip #1 on how to not be a douchenozzle.

Now if you could only heal yourself.

[NAOS]

Now if you could only heal yourself.

ok.

[Bronco70]

Back up from "acceptance" to an earlier point in the encounter with somebody... Now imagine recognizing the person as something other than a thing to be accepted or not accepted.... since, obviously any person is much more than that thing. Find the other stuff; be inspired by it.

Although I think you may have misinterpreted exactly what Stoked was trying to convey, you make a great point: sexual orientation is only as important to a friendly relationship as you make it. If you have no intention of having sex with someone, it really has no bearing on how well you can get along, IMO.

That being said;

There you go. Tip #1 on how to not be a douchenozzle.

You're probably the last guy that should be calling anyone a douchenozzle.