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  1. #61
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
    Orangello main point in his post was that he was actually excited to watch the jazz play.... alot of us have felt like watching the jazz play lately has been boring and stale, but last night was different for most of us..... we actually had fun watching them.

    Keep on trollin though frank!
    I understood that when it was opened with "The frustrating thing about last nights game". Thanks for interpreting English into whatever language you speak though.

    Keep on writing stupid **** that makes you look like an inbred hillbilly fishonjazz!

  2. #62
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    Over the 11/12 and 12/13 seasons, the Jazz are 42-39 with Al in the lineup. The average score in those games is 99.4-99.0.

    Over the 11/12 and 12/13 seasons, the Jazz are 5-1 without Al in the lineup. The average score in those games is 105.7-98.2.
    What were those 6 games? 2 were Toronto that I know of.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Broncster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    Over the 11/12 and 12/13 seasons, the Jazz are 42-39 with Al in the lineup. The average score in those games is 99.4-99.0.

    Over the 11/12 and 12/13 seasons, the Jazz are 5-1 without Al in the lineup. The average score in those games is 105.7-98.2.
    How did the Jazz do when their other dominant players missed games in the past. I could be wrong but I generally remember when Dwill went out for a couple game the Jazz played well to compensate for him being out. Generally teams do their best to step up when they are missing one of their better players but when it becomes lots of game in a row that burst drops off and they do worse. That is a nice stat but still can not be taken at face value for multiple reasons. Ball movement was a little better but Jazz ran the same sets and fed the ball to Kanter who is far less likely to pass out or make an assist than Jefferson.

    This boards hate for Jefferson is crazy. He is not a great player but he is a good solid player, if he was in his 2nd or 3rd year playing like this people would love him.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Purch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchJazzer View Post
    But we still needed a miracle 3 and 3 overtimes to beat them


    Btw, I'm kind of curious as to how you guys are comparing this Raptor game to the one that went to three ot's? Jazz fans as well as anyone should know that we're a completely different team on the road than we are at home. Regardless of who's on the team, we've blown out good teams at home, whiles losing to crappy teams on the road.

    Take for instance when we played the hornets.. Anthony Davis didn't play for nearly a whole half of basketball... yet because it was on the road we lost, because our bench and our defense aren't nearly as good on the road.

    We're a completely different team at home/road so it's a really marginal argument to make that because Jefferson was out... it was the reason why we blew out the raptors at home. Because just by looking at the Jazz history this season, you see its clear that we play a completely different brand of basketball at home as compared to that game we played against the Raptors on the road.

    We beat Denver by 2 at home, whiles we got blown out by 20 by them on the road. So you can't just compare road games to home games, as a way to say that because player A was out in the second game clearly that led to a win against the team this time around.

    That kind of logic just ignores the road problems we had all season, and the home magic we've had all season. When you choose not to contextualize things, to make an argument it's a big hint that the logic behind the argument if faulty
    Last edited by Purch; 12-08-2012 at 11:55 AM.

  5. #65
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    What were those 6 games? 2 were Toronto that I know of.
    The numbers look much better without context.

    v. Phil 102-99
    v. Tor 106-111 (2OT)
    v. Por 93-89
    v. GS 99-92 (OT)
    @ LAL 103-99
    v. Tor 131-99
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

  6. #66
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncster View Post
    This boards hate for Jefferson is crazy. He is not a great player but he is a good solid player, if he was in his 2nd or 3rd year playing like this people would love him.
    But he's in his 9th year, making $15mm.
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

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  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoTappin View Post
    True and a good point. But the Jazz won by 32 points last night. Not 10, 12, or even 20. 32 points. The Jazz SHOULD beat teams like that by 32....that's their potential. Last night, they achieved it. Underachieving their potential has been my #1 complaint about the Jazz over the years. If they'd just play up to their potential, they'd be SO good. Last night they did it. Yes it was one game, but if they play like that consistently, against other teams who are much better than Toronto, they'd still beat them; not by 32, but still come out with a W.

    It was the ball movement last night that made the difference. I believe they got good shots and got in rhythm because of how well they moved the ball. They do that better without Al. Everyone else, even Favors and Kanter, are better at working within the system that demands strong ball movement.
    It still means jack to me. If Jefferson's out for a couple more weeks, come talk to me. Our next eight games include six road games and two home games vs. the Spurs and Grizzlies.

  9. #68
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncster View Post
    How did the Jazz do when their other dominant players missed games in the past. I could be wrong but I generally remember when Dwill went out for a couple game the Jazz played well to compensate for him being out.
    From the start of the 06/07 season to the Deron trade, the Jazz were 167-109 (.605) with Deron in the lineup. The Jazz were 14-12 (.538) in games Deron missed.
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

  10. #69
    Senior Member Purch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purch View Post
    Btw, I'm kind of curious as to how you guys are comparing this Raptor game to the one that went to three ot's? Jazz fans as well as anyone should know that we're a completely different team on the road than we are at home. Regardless of who's on the team, we've blown out good teams at home, whiles losing to crappy teams on the road.

    Take for instance when we played the hornets.. Anthony Davis didn't play for nearly a whole half of basketball... yet because it was on the road we lost, because our bench and our defense aren't nearly as good on the road.

    We're a completely different team at home/road so it's a really marginal argument to make that because Jefferson was out... it was the reason why we blew out the raptors at home. Because just by looking at the Jazz history this season, you see its clear that we play a completely different brand of basketball at home as compared to that game we played against the Raptors on the road.

    We beat Denver by 2 at home, whiles we got blown out by 20 by them on the road. So you can't just compare road games to home games, as a way to say that because player A was out in the second game clearly that led to a win against the team this time around.

    That kind of logic just ignores the road problems we had all season, and the home magic we've had all season. When you choose not to contextualize things, to make an argument it's a big hint that the logic behind the argument if faulty
    btw, I'm not saying that you guys are wrong about Jefferson ( Wanted to trade him and MIllsap both a year ago) but that argument about the two Toronto games is really faulty

  11. #70
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    What were those 6 games? 2 were Toronto that I know of.
    What is your point? When Al does play we usually only beat bad teams also and loose to the better teams.

  12. #71
    Moderator Revolution 9's Avatar
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    How are are going going to defend without Al? With him gone their bigs will eat us alive in the paint.
    "Hayward can be a #1?"......"Maybe if he goes down to Fort Wayne...DLeague" -ESPN

  13. #72
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    The numbers look much better without context.

    v. Phil 102-99
    v. Tor 106-111 (2OT)
    v. Por 93-89
    v. GS 99-92 (OT)
    @ LAL 103-99
    v. Tor 131-99

    Thats a pretty good sample as far as quality of teams: some bad ones, some decent ones, and a good one. (though still a small sample.)

    Seems like if Al was not on this team then our amount of wins wouldn't go down much (and possible might go up), plus we get to develop our young talent, plus the games are more fun to watch, plus we spend his 15 million elsewhere.... Whats not to like?

  14. #73
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    To be fair:

    11/12:

    Phil 16-17 road record
    Tor 10-23 road record
    Por 8-25 road record
    GS 11-22 road record
    LAL 26-7 home record

    12/13:

    Tor 1-12 road record

    The Lakers win was great. The Philly win was good. 3-1 in the other games (what should be easy home wins).
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

  15. #74
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Also its interesting that before Al came to the jazz, they were better than after. (obviously that has to do with having memo, d-will, and AK).

    The celtics got better after getting rid of big al. (and picking up garnett, and ray allen)

    The t-wolves got better after getting rid of big al. (and drafting kevin love.)

    The jazz have a better record since they aquired big al when he doesn't play...... I dont really have a point since there are good reasons/excuses for the discrepencies, but those are the facts.

  16. #75
    Senior Member Cyrone Torbin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    But he's in his 9th year, making $15mm.
    There are players who suck way worse and are paid the same, or more.
    'Merican League Consensus (kind of) PWR RANKS

    12) Goose

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