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  1. #136
    Senior Member LunaticWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    Or not. Isn't it possible that Al's absence is one of the reasons games without Al have been more entertaining? I know you've always been big on sticking to your guns (CJ!), but do you find Al-ball entertaining? How easily can a contender be built around a player like Al? Do you see that happening?
    I think you were entertained because it was our first big blowout of the year.
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

  2. #137
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaticWolf View Post
    I think you were entertained because it was our first big blowout of the year.
    Good for you?
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  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    Or not. Isn't it possible that Al's absence is one of the reasons games without Al have been more entertaining? I know you've always been big on sticking to your guns (CJ!), but do you find Al-ball entertaining? How easily can a contender be built around a player like Al? Do you see that happening?
    It's plain silly to draw sweeping conclusions from a single game. Especially when the opponent was 4-15, on the 3rd game of a road trip, and has the 25th ranked defense in the league. Toronto had lost 8 of their last 9 games for god's sake.

  4. #139
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    For perspective:

    Al is the 19th highest paid player in the league this season.

    Al is tied (with Kemba Walker) for 25th in points per game (17.4).

    Among the top 50 scorers in the NBA (coincidentally, these are the players who've scored 15.0+ ppg), Al is tied for 22nd in points per possession (this accounts for turnovers and fouls drawn). 3 players are tied with Al (Blake Griffin, Nic Batum, Goran Dragic).

    Of the 24 players who score more points per game than Al, 12 score more efficiently (with one, Blake Griffin, tied).
    Interesting stats. Do you know of any measurements that show the benefit other players receive from dominant players demanding so much attention? That's what I'd use to compare Big Al's true value. Most fans are oblivious to this aspect of NBA caliber offenses.
    No Mediocrity

  5. #140
    Senior Member m3at's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    Or not. Isn't it possible that Al's absence is one of the reasons games without Al have been more entertaining? I know you've always been big on sticking to your guns (CJ!), but do you find Al-ball entertaining? How easily can a contender be built around a player like Al? Do you see that happening?
    I think shaq has it right when he talks about how Howard should score. The same can be applied to a guy like Al. Al takes three shots per quarter. The rest of his points are from put backs and going to the line

  6. #141
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
    It's plain silly to draw sweeping conclusions from a single game. Especially when the opponent was 4-15, on the 3rd game of a road trip, and has the 25th ranked defense in the league. Toronto had lost 8 of their last 9 games for god's sake.
    and? Did you enjoy the game?

    We all know the Jazz were playing a very bad Raptors team.

    With that said, it's just as silly to assert that the players the Jazz put on the floor, and the way those players played together, had no effect on the outcome of the game. Is that what you're asserting?
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  7. #142
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    Interesting stats. Do you know of any measurements that show the benefit other players receive from dominant players demanding so much attention? That's what I'd use to compare Big Al's true value. Most fans are oblivious to this aspect of NBA caliber offenses.
    Outside of dutch and nerd, I think just about everyone recognizes that players who draw attention away from their teammates on the offensive end provide value beyond their raw numbers. Same goes for players who are able to score consistent points when the offense breaks down.

    These aren't the only ways players add value, however, and Al comes up pretty small in a lot of other areas. I don't know of any free and available stats that try to measure the relative value of having an iso scorer/drawer of double teams, so it's hard to say how important those skills are. +/- (raw and adjusted) and on-court/off-court team stats are an imperfect indicator, I suppose.
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  8. #143
    In pursuit of #9 PKM's Avatar
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    Not sure how important it is to do statistical analysis and have any burden of proof as to why playing without Al is more entertaining. It's an opinion, of which, I share.
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  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    and? Did you enjoy the game?

    We all know the Jazz were playing a very bad Raptors team.

    With that said, it's just as silly to assert that the players the Jazz put on the floor, and the way those players played together, had no effect on the outcome of the game. Is that what you're asserting?
    The only assertion I'm making is that the game wouldn't have looked much different whether Al was on or off the floor. The only noticeable difference was we had to play small a lot because of the foul trouble to the bigs and fortunately Toronto A) has a very thin frontcourt; and B) we made an absurd number of shots.

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  11. #145
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Frank, I may go through the mysynergysports.com stats come the end of this week, summing over all teams, to see the distribution and efficiency of different scoring methods. Unfortunately, the stats don't show how these different methods create open shots/add points via the pass.

    Having looked at a few of the stats, Jazz P&R ball handlers are a HUGE problem. The Jazz seem (again, haven't crunched the numbers) to take very few shots out of the pick and roll (relative to other teams), which matches what we all think. The roll man in these situations scores fairly efficiently at 1.12 points per possession (5th among NBA teams). The ball handler comes in at 0.66 PPP (29th). Damian Lillard, as P&R ball handler, scores 0.94 PPP. What could have been...
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  12. #146
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
    The only assertion I'm making is that the game wouldn't have looked much different whether Al was on or off the floor
    ********.
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  13. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVC View Post
    ********.
    As ******** as your assertion, I agree.

  14. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
    The overreaction to Al's absence is not unexpected, but did anyone bother to notice we crushed a team that was 4-15, on the 3rd game of a road trip, and currently sports the 25th ranked defense?
    The same team that tooka miracle 3 and 3 ot's to beat. Getting sick and tired of repeatingg this
    01-21-2013
    I, HeavenHarris, hereby pledge to my fellow JFC'rs that I will no longer give out neg-reps. All it does is cause negative things, like fights, drama, bitching, ill will, bad feelings, etc.
    Love, not hate, is the answer bros and moes.

    LOL Lol breaks his pledge 5 days later hahahaha

  15. #149
    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
    As ******** as your assertion, I agree.
    Which assertion?
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  16. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaticWolf View Post
    I think you were entertained because it was our first big blowout of the year.
    It was the first blow outbecause when up 10 the players did not relax and letup.
    They kept hustling and playing d
    Something that the highest paid player,captain and leader does not do
    01-21-2013
    I, HeavenHarris, hereby pledge to my fellow JFC'rs that I will no longer give out neg-reps. All it does is cause negative things, like fights, drama, bitching, ill will, bad feelings, etc.
    Love, not hate, is the answer bros and moes.

    LOL Lol breaks his pledge 5 days later hahahaha

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