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  1. #196
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zman1527 View Post
    NOT regardless of Al. What matters is what plays are called and what happens of offense. If you go to dumping it into Slow Al on the low left block, it will be a different story. One we are very used to and most are very tired of.
    Actually that's the most reliable play in the book. Al gets the ball down there, he's probably going to score and if somebody cuts he'll find them. If you hate that play, you hate Corbin. Kanter was drafted to run that play, if/when he's as good as Al executing it, you'll have an opportunity to shift your anger to him.

    The trick is getting the rest of the team involved early. This was easy the last two games against teams that didn't do anything to keep our players from moving plus in the Toronto game the crutch was removed. Against LA Al didn't attempt a shot till about 7:30 in the first. This is a good template but it won't work all the time and when it doesn't Ty will go straight back to that play to get some points.

    The hope is that the team comes together to the point that even against really good defensive teams we can get the other guys involved early on and have Al concentrate on D/rebounding early, or if you don't like him hope that Kanter continues to grow. That is, unless you've thrown in the towel on the whole shabang as some have already around here.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

  2. #197
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrone Torbin View Post
    I think the key is pushing tempo early. Right out of the gate we pushed tempo and got easy buckets, so we didn't need to go to Al right away. I think that allowed for everyone to get involved early, and that involvement carried out through the rest of the game. Al is great whenever the offense is lagging and we know we can through him the ball for some instant offense when nothing else seems to be going our way.

    That's been TyCo's stated strategy all season but It'll take at least another 20 games before homer fans to catch on. The most obvious use was when it failed against the Spurs and Poppavich forced them to go into a set Jefferson-centric offense. In the meantime, the trailer park armchair quarterbacks will find every excuse to blame Jefferson for playing his role & winning basketball games.

    Also, a lot of the early offense was created by Jefferson's good rebounding and outlet passing abilities.
    No Mediocrity

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    That's been TyCo's stated strategy all season but It'll take at least another 20 games before homer fans to catch on. The most obvious use was when it failed against the Spurs and Poppavich forced them to go into a set Jefferson-centric offense. In the meantime, the trailer park armchair quarterbacks will find every excuse to blame Jefferson for playing his role & winning basketball games.

    Also, a lot of the early offense was created by Jefferson's good rebounding and outlet passing abilities.
    Check my sig sweetie

  4. #199
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    Check my sig sweetie
    You should probably modify that to reflect reality. Jazz are playing well enough that Jefferson isn't getting traded, Millsap will most likely walk at the end of the season if KOLindsey can't get much back for him, & the FO will re-sign Jefferson for a modest amount. That's what I've said all along, of course, and JF is finally catching up.

    It's sad how far out of favor Millsap has fallen though. I feel like I'm one of the few defending him from shameless character assassins.
    No Mediocrity

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Notes View Post
    Actually that's the most reliable play in the book. Al gets the ball down there, he's probably going to score and if somebody cuts he'll find them.
    If they cut, he will find them? LMAO. Okay, that happens maybe once a month. And yes, it is a reliable play. We can really on Al to go very slowly, choke off the rest of the offense, and put up a shot. Very reliable.

    We are now seeing what the team can be without the Slow Al game. Much better scoring, much more efficient, much more effective = wins, much more enjoyable to watch.

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  7. #201
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zman1527 View Post
    If they cut, he will find them? LMAO. Okay, that happens maybe once a month. And yes, it is a reliable play. We can really on Al to go very slowly, choke off the rest of the offense, and put up a shot. Very reliable.

    We are now seeing what the team can be without the Slow Al game. Much better scoring, much more efficient, much more effective = wins, much more enjoyable to watch.
    I should add that if you hate that play you also hated about 1/3 of Karl Malone's game. Sloan ran that same play through him all the time. Karl would get the ball, size up the D/his man, and then either shoot a fading J, find a cutting guard with that awesome hook pass, or back in/drive. It took several seconds typically before one of these things would happen. Just FYI, that play has been a staple of Jazz ball.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

  8. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Notes View Post
    I should add that if you hate that play you also hated about 1/3 of Karl Malone's game. Sloan ran that same play through him all the time. Karl would get the ball, size up the D/his man, and then either shoot a fading J, find a cutting guard with that awesome hook pass, or back in/drive. It took several seconds typically before one of these things would happen. Just FYI, that play has been a staple of Jazz ball.
    Don't, just don't. Al Jefferson <<<< Karl Malone.

    Yes, it has been a staple of "Jazz basketball". I think that is part of the problem, they keep trying to re-create Stockton to Malone. Go with what you have and get the best out of the talent available. Don't plug square pegs into round holes. There are other ways to play the game and we have seen it in the last two games.

  9. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Notes View Post
    I should add that if you hate that play you also hated about 1/3 of Karl Malone's game. Sloan ran that same play through him all the time. Karl would get the ball, size up the D/his man, and then either shoot a fading J, find a cutting guard with that awesome hook pass, or back in/drive. It took several seconds typically before one of these things would happen. Just FYI, that play has been a staple of Jazz ball.
    I'm gonna pretend you didn't just have this abortion of a post. Nice attempt at a sort-of, like, um, comparison to 1/3rd of a two-way, highly efficient player's game.... who was also such a superior passer from that spot that it negates this, um, comparison.

  10. #204
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zman1527 View Post
    Don't, just don't. Al Jefferson <<<< Karl Malone.
    Remember the alligator analogy, my friend?
    No Mediocrity

  11. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    You should probably modify that to reflect reality. Jazz are playing well enough that Jefferson isn't getting traded, Millsap will most likely walk at the end of the season if KOLindsey can't get much back for him, & the FO will re-sign Jefferson for a modest amount. That's what I've said all along, of course, and JF is finally catching up.

    It's sad how far out of favor Millsap has fallen though. I feel like I'm one of the few defending him from shameless character assassins.
    There are worse outcomes than Al off the bench for a reasonable sum.

    I still hope that doesn't happen. Trade deadline, baby. Sexual Turkey.

  12. #206
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    I'm gonna pretend you didn't just have this abortion of a post. Nice attempt at a sort-of, like, um, comparison to 1/3rd of a two-way, highly efficient player's game.... who was also such a superior passer from that spot that it negates this, um, comparison.
    So typical from people who choose to wear blinders.

    The point being not only that the low post play works, and works well, but also takes a little time to develop. You two feel free to attempt to clown this but the fact is, I just demonstrated that Al is not slowing down the offense at all by executing that play. When the guards cut off high screens he finds them. When somebody gets a mismatch pinned under the basket he finds them. If nobody moves he's probably going to score anyways.

    Again, if you don't like that play that's your business but coming back with weak ass trash like I'm retarded for bringing up Malone is simply dodging. That play does represent winning basketball, but for the offense as a whole to operate better you want smaller doses than we've seen for most of the first 20-odd games, and better execution from the 4 players on the court not named Al Jefferson. It has zero to do with Al Jefferson ruining anything offensively.

    Cheers.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

  13. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Notes View Post
    So typical from people who choose to wear blinders.

    The point being not only that the low post play works, and works well, but also takes a little time to develop. You two feel free to attempt to clown this but the fact is, I just demonstrated that Al is not slowing down the offense at all by executing that play. When the guards cut off high screens he finds them. When somebody gets a mismatch pinned under the basket he finds them. If nobody moves he's probably going to score anyways.

    Again, if you don't like that play that's your business but coming back with weak ass trash like I'm retarded for bringing up Malone is simply dodging. That play does represent winning basketball, but for the offense as a whole to operate better you want smaller doses than we've seen for most of the first 20-odd games, and better execution from the 4 players on the court not named Al Jefferson. It has zero to do with Al Jefferson ruining anything offensively.

    Cheers.
    in other news, when a Center snaps the ball to the Quarterback for the Browns.... we can still call it "football"

  14. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Notes View Post
    The point being not only that the low post play works, and works well, but also takes a little time to develop. You two feel free to attempt to clown this but the fact is, I just demonstrated that Al is not slowing down the offense at all by executing that play. When the guards cut off high screens he finds them. When somebody gets a mismatch pinned under the basket he finds them. If nobody moves he's probably going to score anyways.
    Have you ever actually watched Slow Al play a game? He never makes those passes. Okay, once a month at best.

  15. #209
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
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    You guys simply don't want to see the truth.

    Watch Kanter run the exact same play. He gets the ball, holds it while the passer runs by him, then does his thing. It has nothing to do with the player doing something wrong, and everything to do with the design.

    If you can't get your heads around this there's nothing that can be done for you. You've made your choices and will attempt to move the facts around them.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

  16. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Notes View Post
    You guys simply don't want to see the truth.

    Watch Kanter run the exact same play. He gets the ball, holds it while the passer runs by him, then does his thing. It has nothing to do with the player doing something wrong, and everything to do with the design.

    If you can't get your heads around this there's nothing that can be done for you. You've made your choices and will attempt to move the facts around them.
    You refuse to see that players make "the play", not the other way around. Therefore, when Malone does something, it might be incomparable to when Jefferson or Kanter does something that is superficially similar. For you to say we "must hate something" based on this superficiality is the height of ignorance. I'd hate the Patriots offense if Cassel was getting the snap, and love it when Brady does. Questions?

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