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  1. #211
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
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    You're missing the point entirely, and purposely. You're not so stupid as to be incapable of understanding such a simple concept.

    I'm addressing the idea that whoever the player is running that post play is slowing the offense down. At no point did I say Al = Karl, = Kanter or anybody else. For you two to attempt to put those words in my mouth is simply avoiding the stated reality of the play design. If Al is slowing the offense down then so is every other player who gets the ball in the same situation.

    Again, if you don't like the play itself that is a completely different conversation. But the fact is Al Jefferson executes that play as well as anybody in the NBA right now which is why Corbin overuses it.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Notes View Post
    I should add that if you hate that play you also hated about 1/3 of Karl Malone's game.
    no it doesn't.

    Sloan ran that same play through him all the time.
    I refuse to start the debate with the assumption that it is even the same "play".

    Look, if you don't think Hayward et al. know the precise limitations of Al's passing abilities and decision-making capacities -- and that these are drastically lower than Malone's -- then we should just pack it up here.

  3. #213
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Brown Nose, just tell NAOS that he's "a good general discussion poster" and move on with it.
    No Mediocrity

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    Brown Nose, just tell NAOS that he's "a good general discussion poster" and move on with it.
    Lololololololol.

    Don't say that. I'm sensitive.

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  6. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Notes View Post
    I'm addressing the idea that whoever the player is running that post play is slowing the offense down. At no point did I say Al = Karl, = Kanter or anybody else. For you two to attempt to put those words in my mouth is simply avoiding the stated reality of the play design. If Al is slowing the offense down then so is every other player who gets the ball in the same situation.
    That is simply not true and it is incomprehensible that you would suggest that. No one ever complained about the Jazz offense coming to a screeching halt when Malone had the ball on the low post. That is because it did not. Back to the basket, he was always looking over his left shoulder for a cutter in the lane, often hitting them with a sweet pass for a easy bucket. Tell me how many times Slow Al has done that. You count them using the fingers of one hand.

    Corbin uses it because, yes, Al can score down there and because he was groomed for "Jazz basketball" = Stockton to Malone. Unfortunately, as we are now seeing in the last two games clearly, putting it in Al's hands damages the rest of the offense.

  7. #216
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
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    So these guys are all cutting more when Sap, Favors, or Kanter gets the ball in the same situation? I must be missing those games.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

  8. #217
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zman1527 View Post
    Don't, just don't. Al Jefferson <<<< Karl Malone.

    Yes, it has been a staple of "Jazz basketball". I think that is part of the problem, they keep trying to re-create Stockton to Malone. Go with what you have and get the best out of the talent available. Don't plug square pegs into round holes. There are other ways to play the game and we have seen it in the last two games.
    This is your earlier post Z. You must have forgotten. My premise has absolutely nothing to do with comparing the ability of Al Jefferson to Karl Malone, which you quite plainly make into the main issue here. Square pegs? Cmon man. Scoring in the low post is what Al does.

    You guys brought it up multiple times, and I got a tasty neg from DJ, because that's all you wanted to see.

    Clearly I'm wasting my time with you guys. You need your dead horse.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

  9. #218
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    Your premise has everything to do with some assumption of "the play". Whether you want to admit it or not, you set up a comparison with this assumption. This is basic argumentation.

  10. #219
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    Your premise has everything to do with some assumption of "the play". Whether you want to admit it or not, you set up a comparison with this assumption. This is basic argumentation.
    Well there's a reason that low post play is what I bring up, this is the possession in which Al holds onto the ball. The design is exactly where all the black hole talk comes from. Which was true his first year here. Not anymore.

    You're not an idiot NAOS. You know I'm not comparing player abilities but rather execution of the same play with different personnel. You also know that is a designed "play". Putting quotation marks around the word does not make it into a myth. That's not streetball Al is playing. You know perfectly well he is doing what he is being coached to do. All the obfuscation by you in here is simply to deflect the premise I made rather than respond to it. It's sad really. Let it go, man.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

  11. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Notes View Post
    This is your earlier post Z. You must have forgotten. My premise has absolutely nothing to do with comparing the ability of Al Jefferson to Karl Malone, which you quite plainly make into the main issue here. Square pegs? Cmon man. Scoring in the low post is what Al does.

    You guys brought it up multiple times, and I got a tasty neg from DJ, because that's all you wanted to see.

    Clearly I'm wasting my time with you guys. You need your dead horse.
    Your point seems to be that the play matters more than the player. So running a one on one iso is the same regardless if you have Kobe Bryant doing it or CJ Miles, right?

    Putting the ball into the hands of Slow Al in the low block stagnates the offense for everyone else. This is because he is a poor passer, has very poor vision, and likes to take his time getting a shot off so everyone else stands around watching. Those are HIS personal traits and they do not apply to everyone who gets the ball on the low post so quit trying to say that it does.

  12. #221
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zman1527 View Post
    Your point seems to be that the play matters more than the player. So running a one on one iso is the same regardless if you have Kobe Bryant doing it or CJ Miles, right?

    Putting the ball into the hands of Slow Al in the low block stagnates the offense for everyone else. This is because he is a poor passer, has very poor vision, and likes to take his time getting a shot off so everyone else stands around watching. Those are HIS personal traits and they do not apply to everyone who gets the ball on the low post so quit trying to say that it does.
    Yes, in regard to holding onto the ball for several seconds. I'm proud of you.
    Last edited by Brown Notes; 12-10-2012 at 01:42 PM.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

  13. #222
    Senior Member Eenie-Meenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAKAR View Post
    If you was an NBA Player yourŽe self, would you want to go through a paint which is protected by a 290 lb huge Big-Man like BIG-AL ?

    IŽ dont...
    I'd salivate, especially if I were a small, quick point guard who could break Big Al's ankles and scoot around him unmolested.

  14. #223
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    See once again #212

    There's also important rule changes that are glossed over when we talk about this play as if it were the same.

    I've let it go. Those of you sticking to your guns re:Al can't expect less from others.... especially when you trot out sickly arguments.

  15. #224
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
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    I don't care if you want to get rid of him, or don't like his game. I just have a problem with the black hole thing, or that it's Al personally that stagnates the offense. Running anybody in the low post over and over again will stagnate. It's not a ball-movement approach.

    If these guys can score without going to that play like they did against LA for the first 4-5 minutes it's a great, great sign. And if you can limit Al to around 30 minutes you also hide his susceptibility to fatigue which solves a whole bunch of other problems. I'm absolutely all for the dude playing in smaller doses, he's a lot more energetic and aggressive when this happens.

    If they can't score without him and Corbin reverts to the all Al all the time strategy we will have very little chance of beating the Spurs.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

  16. #225
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    ...but there is some bit of Al -- personally -- that is responsible. You can try to list all the other causes (and there are quite a few), but you can't ignore the Jefferdad. He has to go on the list. Just ask Millsap.

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