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  1. #241
    Senior Member LunaticWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
    But replacing al with favors/kanter means we throw the ball into the post less.... so while kanter/favors dont pass better than big al or get more assists than big al, the rest of the team passes the ball around more and get more touches, assists and shots when al is out.

    Because corbin believes in big al so much, he just pounds the ball to al all game long..... when kanter was in for big al, corbin doesn't have the same faith in kanter to dominate the paint offensively so the offensive becomes less post up dominant.
    Kanter took 16 shots. Jefferson averages 15. I'd say they spent the same amount of time back to basket bro.
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  2. #242
    In pursuit of #9 PKM's Avatar
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    I'm not arguing anything here .. but I do find it somewhat worth mentioning that that game was likely Kanter's FIRST game ever shooting as many shots as Al averages.

    No point, really, just to say he did alright.
    #dumptruckin

  3. #243
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM View Post
    I'm not arguing anything here .. but I do find it somewhat worth mentioning that that game was likely Kanter's FIRST game ever shooting as many shots as Al averages.

    No point, really, just to say he did alright.
    What's most impressive is you know how gassed he had to have been playing that many minutes, taking all those shots means packing a lot of dude around on your back down there. I wouldn't bag on his line in any way.
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  4. #244
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
    I guess you missed the toronto and laker games.

    There did seem to be more cutting in those 2 games. One of them al was out and the other one al was not the focus of the offense.
    It's taken me a good 6-8 months but I've finally honed in on whos alt you are. You've been one of the hardest. Bravo.
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  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
    But replacing al with favors/kanter means we throw the ball into the post less.... so while kanter/favors dont pass better than big al or get more assists than big al, the rest of the team passes the ball around more and get more touches, assists and shots when al is out.

    Because corbin believes in big al so much, he just pounds the ball to al all game long..... when kanter was in for big al, corbin doesn't have the same faith in kanter to dominate the paint offensively so the offensive becomes less post up dominant.
    Basically, none of this happens. We go into the post no matter which of our 4 are on the floor. And when it goes into Favors, it's not coming out. If anyone on this team is a black hole, it's him. Kanter is much more apt to pass out if he can't get an initial move going, but that hardly contributes to the "ball moving around." He's usually diddled with it for a few seconds and quits. And there's plenty of times it goes right back in to him.

    I've got no problem with this. Favors will eventually need to learn to pass, but he needs a post game more. Kanter is getting better, he just needs more of an arsenal. But the irony is once he gets one, he's not going to be passing out much more either. While I love the potential of Favors and Kanter, you can be sure we'll hear about ball sticking if they're the starters next year (and that's not necessarily a bad thing.)

  6. #246
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    What did people see when they watched the Laker game? What I saw is this: By design, Paul basically replaced Al in the offense due to matchups (score Ty). While he did operate out of the low block a few times (like Al), he mostly operated on that elbow (another score Ty because Sap struggles in the post, but is very good on the elbow.)

    Sap was not passing. He was not contributing to ball movement. He was relentlessly attacking a mismatch (first Jameson, then Hill). He basically took Al's role because of the mismatch and Al was all too happy to watch him motor.

    We mostly killed the Lakers in transition (which is also not ball movement.) But we did get another solid start from Mo, Tinsley played well, and we had tons of cutters. Again, this has nothing to do with post play.

  7. #247
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    As to Al, Brown Notes has been dead on. Going into the post is a good thing. It's also a thing Al is really, really good at. I've been killing this offense all year for the lack of cutters and movement once he gets it. He's certainly not missing cutters because, until recently, there haven't been any. The light bulb seems to have gone off on that front because there is much more fluidity in the last few games.

  8. #248
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaticWolf View Post
    It gets stagnant when the wings give up and refuse to cut. Not because Al has the ball in the post.
    ....and the circular logic becomes tortuous...
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  9. #249
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    Look dudes, as one of the Trade-Al guys who is sticking to his guns, I RESERVE FULL RIGHT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT BLACK-HOLISMS FROM KANTER AND/OR FAVORS IF/WHEN THEY MATERIALIZE AS THE MAJOR FACET OF THE OFFENSE. Your speculative claims that IF WE TRADE AL, THEN IT'LL BE MORE OF THE SAME WITH DIFFERENT ACTORS are doing nothing to my desire to move Al.

    Questions? ****, I wish I could rep this post.
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  10. #250
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
    As to Al, Brown Notes has been dead on. Going into the post is a good thing. It's also a thing Al is really, really good at. I've been killing this offense all year for the lack of cutters and movement once he gets it. He's certainly not missing cutters because, until recently, there haven't been any. The light bulb seems to have gone off on that front because there is much more fluidity in the last few games.
    What's certain is that you, brown notes, and lunatic have dug your heels in and are refusing to see the issue on different terms.

    But, hey, let's seriously forget those issues...... You wanna talk about defense?
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  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    Look dudes, as one of the Trade-Al guys who is sticking to his guns, I RESERVE FULL RIGHT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT BLACK-HOLISMS FROM KANTER AND/OR FAVORS IF/WHEN THEY MATERIALIZE AS THE MAJOR FACET OF THE OFFENSE. Your speculative claims that IF WE TRADE AL, THEN IT'LL BE MORE OF THE SAME WITH DIFFERENT ACTORS are doing nothing to my desire to move Al.

    Questions? ****, I wish I could rep this post.
    How is your conviction that the offense will move the ball better or guys will cut more without Al any less speculative? The Toronto game? The Laker game when our bigs didn't pass the ball any more than Al does?

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  13. #252
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
    How is your conviction that the offense will move the ball better or guys will cut more without Al any less speculative? The Toronto game? The Laker game when our bigs didn't pass the ball any more than Al does?
    Does it matter if it isn't less speculative?

    One thing is for sure, I know who Al Jefferson is. Do you know who Favors and Kanter are? You wanna talk about defense?
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  14. #253
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    I'll add this as a sidebar: at least there is the merit that I'm willing to admit the speculative nature of my argument. The Al apologists preach their stuff like gospel.
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  15. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    Does it matter if it isn't less speculative?

    One thing is for sure, I know who Al Jefferson is. Do you know who Favors and Kanter are? You wanna talk about defense?
    Why would we talk about defense in a "How can we score without Jefferson" thread? It seems to me this thread is about how the offense does or doesn't work with Al in it. But Al's defense is pretty basic. He's solid one on one, not a great help defender, and gets exposed in the PnR. That same description would apply to many of the top 4's and 5's in the league.

  16. #255
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
    Why would we talk about defense in a "How can we score without Jefferson" thread? It seems to me this thread is about how the offense does or doesn't work with Al in it. But Al's defense is pretty basic. He's solid one on one, not a great help defender, and gets exposed in the PnR. That same description would apply to many of the top 4's and 5's in the league.
    We could talk about defense now or in any other thread that so often wanders off topic.

    I'll score it as a victory for my side anytime the Factoid Al Crowd realizes they don't control the terms of the debate. This stuff is debatable. It is debatable whether Al is an elite post player (i.e. efficient). If we were to grant the idea that he is elite (just for discussion), then it would be debatable whether or not this is good for the team. Etc.

    You were kind to his defense. Especially kind given that two better defenders are waiting behind him.
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