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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
    Like i said, you presume that the offense will be the same.....is it not possible for corbin to change the offense once his safety blanket (jefferson) is gone?

    Or do think there is some kind of rule that no matter the personnell the offense must go through the low post no matter what?

    Oh wait you said yourself that they used paul millsap against the lakers in a much different way and totally changed the offense to the tune of 117 pts on the road.... so there is a chance things could change without big Al.
    Thanks for that insight billy. I look forward to next year even more now!
    Whether Al takes his 18 shots on the block, or Paul takes his 18 on the elbow doesn't change anything. The ball is not "moving more" in either scenario. That was the point. Ty didn't change the offense. He changed who shot it the most. And Paul, like Al, was offensive minded all night as he should have been because he had the matchup. The movement you saw came from the rest of the offense doing what they were supposed to do which has nothing to do with Paul or Al.

  2. #272
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
    This thread is not about what the "funnest" offense is. If we were looking for "fun" we'd hire Paul Westhead to install the Loyola Marymount offense. Scoring more points does not mean we ran a different offense against the Lakers. We just ran things better than we have with more guys cutting and a very good break.
    You said yourself that we went to millsap on the elbow.

    Is millsap on the elbow the same as big al on the low block? Hmmm i though big al and millsap were two different people and the elbow was in a different location than the low block.

    This thread is titled "how are we going to score without big al" Well the last two games didn't feature much of big al scoring and i feel like 133 pts and 117 is pretty good.

    Silly me.

  3. #273
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
    What did people see when they watched the Laker game? What I saw is this: By design, Paul basically replaced Al in the offense due to matchups (score Ty). While he did operate out of the low block a few times (like Al), he mostly operated on that elbow (another score Ty because Sap struggles in the post, but is very good on the elbow.)

    Sap was not passing. He was not contributing to ball movement. He was relentlessly attacking a mismatch (first Jameson, then Hill). He basically took Al's role because of the mismatch and Al was all too happy to watch him motor.

    We mostly killed the Lakers in transition (which is also not ball movement.) But we did get another solid start from Mo, Tinsley played well, and we had tons of cutters. Again, this has nothing to do with post play.
    Here you say the offense changed by using millsap mostly on the elbow and having him attack mismatches (score Ty)... and killing the lakers in transition. and had tons of cutters..... its all right there billy, read your own observations in your own post..... at the end you say this has nothing to do with post play.

    Seems like a different way to play than dump it down to al.

  4. #274
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
    Whether Al takes his 18 shots on the block, or Paul takes his 18 on the elbow doesn't change anything. The ball is not "moving more" in either scenario. That was the point. Ty didn't change the offense. He changed who shot it the most. And Paul, like Al, was offensive minded all night as he should have been because he had the matchup. The movement you saw came from the rest of the offense doing what they were supposed to do which has nothing to do with Paul or Al.
    But this IS the point. Al doesn't have to get the ball on the low block all game every game for the jazz to score... there are other ways like paul millsap on the elbow or getting in transition more or moving the ball around the perimeter and hitting open threes, maybe some pick and roll in the future.

    The whole point of this thread is that we CAN in fact score without al and your own posts prove that billy.... now you are just argueing with yourself.... I hope you win!

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  6. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
    You said yourself that we went to millsap on the elbow.

    Is millsap on the elbow the same as big al on the low block? Hmmm i though big al and millsap were two different people and the elbow was in a different location than the low block.

    This thread is titled "how are we going to score without big al" Well the last two games didn't feature much of big al scoring and i feel like 133 pts and 117 is pretty good.

    Silly me.
    Al on the block = Paul at the elbow. The only difference is where we were looking to score from the bigs and who was doing it. Paul went 9/18 with 2 assists. Pretty similar to an Al night, right?

  7. #276
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
    Whether Al takes his 18 shots on the block, or Paul takes his 18 on the elbow doesn't change anything. The ball is not "moving more" in either scenario. That was the point. Ty didn't change the offense. He changed who shot it the most. And Paul, like Al, was offensive minded all night as he should have been because he had the matchup. The movement you saw came from the rest of the offense doing what they were supposed to do which has nothing to do with Paul or Al.
    See whether al takes his 18 shots or paul does, DOES in fact change things... cause i would much rather watch paul take those shots than al because the way paul plays is more energetic and entertaing and he gets to the line more.
    There is a difference between paul shooting or Al shooting..... at least for my entertainment and really isn't that why we watch the games? to have fun and be entertained.

  8. #277
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
    Al on the block = Paul at the elbow. The only difference is where we were looking to score from the bigs and who was doing it. Paul went 9/18 with 2 assists. Pretty similar to an Al night, right?
    But billy come on man your smarter than this. Those are different because of where and who.
    Lebron pentrating is different than cj miles.
    Ray allen shooting 3's is different than fessenko.
    Most of us are sick of watching al post up.... simple as that. We want something different and paul getting the ball at the elbow is different and also effective. The thread asks if we can score without al... the answer seems to be yes by going to paul on the elbow according to you.

  9. #278
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
    Al on the block = Paul at the elbow. The only difference is where we were looking to score from the bigs and who was doing it. Paul went 9/18 with 2 assists. Pretty similar to an Al night, right?
    It is similar to an al night statistically but thankfully i dont just watch the game via box score. I enjoy pauls game more so i would love it if paul was taking more of al's shots each game and that is why its "different"

  10. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
    See whether al takes his 18 shots or paul does, DOES in fact change things... cause i would much rather watch paul take those shots than al because the way paul plays is more energetic and entertaing and he gets to the line more.
    There is a difference between paul shooting or Al shooting..... at least for my entertainment and really isn't that why we watch the games? to have fun and be entertained.
    Your goal is to be entertained. I get it.

  11. #280
    Senior Member LunaticWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    ....and the circular logic becomes tortuous...
    No. There is no circular logic. You are assuming that the wings are not cutting because Al has the ball.

    They are not cutting because they are having an off night, or their man defender is getting on their nerves, or they are too pansy to get in the thick of things and set screens.

    It has nothing to do with Al bro.

    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
    So billy what changed these last few games to make the "light bulb" go off on the fact that there are more cutters/ball movement?

    Seems like the thing that changed is in one of the games al was out and the other game we went to paul more.
    Well, we had our first practice since a long ass road trip for starters.

    Also there is a huge change to the offense you are forgetting. Kanter and favors are much more mobile so there is alot more transition offense. And they are better defensively causing turnovers and tough shots leading to even more transition.
    Which really has nothing to do with ball movement in set plays.

    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
    See whether al takes his 18 shots or paul does, DOES in fact change things... cause i would much rather watch paul take those shots than al because the way paul plays is more energetic and entertaing and he gets to the line more.
    There is a difference between paul shooting or Al shooting..... at least for my entertainment and really isn't that why we watch the games? to have fun and be entertained.
    I'd rather win games.

    I hear the Warriors in 06-07 were quite exciting. You should go be a fan there.
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

  12. #281
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
    Your goal is to be entertained. I get it.
    Now one more thing billy.
    You said in your previous post that against la we went to paul on the elbow for most of our offense along with transition ball.
    So the whole point of this thread is to wonder if we can score with out al.

    So: whether we give it paul on the elbow and get into transition or we pound it down low to kanter, we have in fact scored pretty well without al correct? (not trying to hate on al, i think he is a fine player by the way).

  13. #282
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaticWolf View Post
    No. There is no circular logic. You are assuming that the wings are not cutting because Al has the ball.

    They are not cutting because they are having an off night, or their man defender is getting on their nerves, or they are too pansy to get in the thick of things and set screens.

    It has nothing to do with Al bro.



    Well, we had our first practice since a long ass road trip for starters.

    Which really has nothing to do with ball movement in set plays.



    I'd rather win games.

    I hear the Warriors in 06-07 were quite exciting. You should go be a fan there.
    So lunatic, the topic of the thread is whether or not we can score without al. Toronto and to lesser extent laker game proved it. Game, set, match.

    Also i would prefer winning basketball and entertainment. (which is exactly what got in the last two games)

  14. #283
    Senior Member LunaticWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
    Your goal is to be entertained. I get it.
    He's changing the topic from ball movement to scoring, because he's realized he can't argue for it anymore. Its over.

    GG WP
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

  15. #284
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaticWolf View Post
    No. There is no circular logic. You are assuming that the wings are not cutting because Al has the ball.

    They are not cutting because they are having an off night, or their man defender is getting on their nerves, or they are too pansy to get in the thick of things and set screens.

    It has nothing to do with Al bro.



    Well, we had our first practice since a long ass road trip for starters.

    Which really has nothing to do with ball movement in set plays.



    I'd rather win games.

    I hear the Warriors in 06-07 were quite exciting. You should go be a fan there.
    Plus why would i be a fan of any team besides the jazz? I love the jazz, hell i have the jazz logo tatooed on my arm.
    This is a discussion about whether the jazz can score without 1 player.... i tend to think that they can and they are better than a 1 man big al team..... I guess you dont think very highly of our team if you think we cant score without 1 guy. Thats too bad, i hope you can eventually get the confidence in the rest of the team that i have someday

  16. #285
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaticWolf View Post
    He's changing the topic from ball movement to scoring, because he's realized he can't argue for it anymore. Its over.

    GG WP

    Thread: How are we going to score without Al?

    just copied and pasted the title of the thread for ya..... now how am changing the topic again?

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