Gun Control

[fishonjazz]

The answer to this question is mental health.

The article about gun control in Japan is all fine and dandy, but it's easy to control something nobody has. Does anyone have an idea how many guns are in America? I'll give you a hint: there are more guns than people.

Instituting radical gun control at this point is futile. I'm with Stoked, we need to be more diligent with the safeguards we have right now. But I agree with him on another point: guns aren't the problem. Spoons don't cause obesity, and bikinis don't cause skin cancer. Guns don't cause violence. They are merely an accessory, and symptom of the problem.

We need to be more concerned about what is acceptable as entertainment, how we treat each other, and the example we set to our children. Everyone is so angry and impatient. That tension builds, and eventually something's gotta give.

This is true.... it is already too late, there are too many guns that there is now way to really get rid of them so something else needs to happen.
I find it funny on facebook how i always see all these gun advocates posting about how thier guns shouldn't be taken away and constitution bla bla blah..... I always tell you have nothing to worry about, there is no way that you will ever have to give up your precious guns.
What it the government going to do exactly? Go door to door and take everyones guns away? They dont have the resources or time to do that.
Guns are here to stay folks.

[fishonjazz]

Im in the opposing....seriously start giving teachers guns...or have a security guard at each school ALL the time. It wouldn't even be that expensive to just hire one more employee.

But seriously I just think teacher needs to start carrying weapons. Just like how Pilots now do since 9/11.

Ya just think when the teacher misplaces thier gun and a kid gets ahold of it and accidentally kills themself.

[The Thriller]

If more gun control helps to decrease the number and/or frequency of these senseless killings, WHY NOT?

The other issue too is that I keep hearing how these sickos will find the guns anyway. I'm not sure I buy that argument anymore. Lets assume that the only way to get these assault weapons is via the "black market." How do these sickos (who can barely manage their own lives) find the black market and afford the weapons? Guns, unlike drugs, do not go up in smoke or urinated away. I'm no gun expert, but can't guns and ammunition be traced? Do black market retailers really want to leave themselves vulnerable to prosecution by being linked to some of these crazies? I'd imagine that black market retailers would actually care deeply about who they're selling their illegal weapons too. They don't want to be seen. They don't want attention. They just want to maintain their business. If anything, black market retailers might care more about who they sell to than current (legal) gun salespeople.

#2 I keep hearing how if everyone were to "pack" we'd all be a lot safer. Serious question, has there been a reported case where an ordinary citizen packing either stopped or minimized the tragedy? I cannot recall any. Here in Utah, where "everyone" packs, we had a shooting just a few years ago up at Trolley Square. I don't recall any ordinary citizen blowing away the shooter. Perhaps all the packers ran away to save their own skins? Maybe they all missed? The shooter was eventually taken down by professionals. So if packing actually makes you "safer" why hasn't any "packer" stopped/minimized (any) of these shootings?
To me, this argument seems like a cheap parlor trick from the NRA attempting to sell more guns under the guise that it will actually make you "safer."

#3 Gun control talk being too soon. If we don't have the discussion IMMEDIATELY after one of these tragedies happen, then it won't happen. Just watch, in a few weeks this will be one bad memory as the rest of us go back to the daily grind. The national media will go back to bitching about the fiscal cliff. And the rest of us will, for all intents and purposes, forget about this tragedy. The time for action is now.

[The Thriller]

How does technology save us from psychopaths making illegal guns, the black market, someone with no history of illness suddenly losing it, etc?

I understand, but I'm just not sure you ever solve evil.

Do black market vendors really want to be linked to these senseless killings?

It seems to me that black market vendors would probably care more about who they are selling their weapons to than current (legal) retailers today.

I think some people just assume that black market retailers will merely sell their (illegal) weapons to anyone and everyone. I don't think that would be the case at all. If anything, they might jack up their prices, perform checks and tests, and really pry into your life to try and figure out why you want to do business with them and that you are serious about obtaining a gun rather than to quickly get one to satisfy some sick urge. They know that they're working in the dark. They know that they're playing with fire. A misstep here could mean not only losing your business but also your life and family.

So I just am not sure that black market retailers are just "down" with selling their guns to any lil crazy who comes their way. If they sense someone is sick or might use their weapons for some sick purpose, I bet they'll tell them to hit the road. They don't want bad pub. They don't want a nasty massacre which would cause law enforcement to raid their businesses.

Right?

[Bronco70]

Thriller - you know the "black market" is not a mall in Atlanta, right?

In theory, tracing guns should be a piece of cake. Check the serial number and follow the paper trail. That's fine if a comprehensive record has been kept each time a gun changes hands, but we haven't really started being conscientious about this until relatively lately. Also, purposely making a gun untraceable is ridiculously easy. Remove or otherwise alter the serial number. And I'm going to just assume you know that ballistics is only helpful in linking ammunition to specific weapons, so that is not really useful in figuring out where a gun came from...

Black market dealers are not in the business of serving the public interest. They are in the business of making money. They don't register what they sell. They probably don't ask a lot of questions beyond "You got the money?".

[Duck Rodgers]

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/...useronline.pdf

[DutchJazzer]

With all of the recent gun violence, what is the sentiment on the board about Gun Control? I personally am beginning to think there is some merit to it.

But this **** happens in other countries with strict gun control.

So no it does not solve ****

[DutchJazzer]

We need to figure out why people, young men seemingly, are deciding that shooting up a number of other people and then offing themselves is a viable choice to whatever is wrong in their lives.

this

[DutchJazzer]

I don't quite agree with this argument for a few reasons; while I think that someone who wants to commit violence will find a way, I don't think that giving him/her the option of using a gun is a good idea. Guns are an extremely efficient way to kill people and while other methods of killing people are also efficient (bombs, knives, etc.) why is it that we don't hear about those kinds of attacks more often? My opinion is this is because guns are just the best option. They are easy to hide, require little mechanical skill to operate, and are super effective at killing people.

so lets say some dude wants to shootup a school but there are no guns.
But the guy desperatly wants to kill 20 people.

Just get a gallon of gas. Some garden spraying ****.
Lock up a clasroom and Burn.

What then make gas and fire illegal?

[DutchJazzer]

Im in the opposing....seriously start giving teachers guns...or have a security guard at each school ALL the time. It wouldn't even be that expensive to just hire one more employee.

But seriously I just think teacher needs to start carrying weapons. Just like how Pilots now do since 9/11.

Carrying guns meansnothing.
Traing and the will to act is everything?


Did you see the beginning of the movie the watch.


The security guard with the gun?


Thats your solution?

[DutchJazzer]

Some type of security is a must I think. This school actually had a system where you would have to be buzzed in, but it wasnt activated until 9:39 am. It should have been all day. At the beginning of school you would have to just have security at the door while you get everyone in. Or something to that effect. They had the right idea it just had flaws.

Typical american hogwash

Get TSA at the schools door.
Body scanners?
Waiting half an hour inline to get in school?

Hahahahahhahaha

[PKM]

Do black market vendors really want to be linked to these senseless killings?

It seems to me that black market vendors would probably care more about who they are selling their weapons to than current (legal) retailers today.

I think some people just assume that black market retailers will merely sell their (illegal) weapons to anyone and everyone. I don't think that would be the case at all. If anything, they might jack up their prices, perform checks and tests, and really pry into your life to try and figure out why you want to do business with them and that you are serious about obtaining a gun rather than to quickly get one to satisfy some sick urge. They know that they're working in the dark. They know that they're playing with fire. A misstep here could mean not only losing your business but also your life and family.

So I just am not sure that black market retailers are just "down" with selling their guns to any lil crazy who comes their way. If they sense someone is sick or might use their weapons for some sick purpose, I bet they'll tell them to hit the road. They don't want bad pub. They don't want a nasty massacre which would cause law enforcement to raid their businesses.

Right?

No way to know for sure, but this entire post seems insanely naïve to me. If I could tell my story, I could share mountains of evidence that anyone 'black market' gives no damn about anything but money.

[DutchJazzer]

Still not as easy as a gun..... easiest most effecient way to kill is with a gun, otherwise you would see hunters out in the woods carrying around some gasoline and fertilizer.

Hunting is done outdoor. Fertilezer and gasoline are effective indoors

[bigb]

If more gun control helps to decrease the number and/or frequency of these senseless killings, WHY NOT?

The other issue too is that I keep hearing how these sickos will find the guns anyway. I'm not sure I buy that argument anymore. Lets assume that the only way to get these assault weapons is via the "black market." How do these sickos (who can barely manage their own lives) find the black market and afford the weapons? Guns, unlike drugs, do not go up in smoke or urinated away. I'm no gun expert, but can't guns and ammunition be traced? Do black market retailers really want to leave themselves vulnerable to prosecution by being linked to some of these crazies? I'd imagine that black market retailers would actually care deeply about who they're selling their illegal weapons too. They don't want to be seen. They don't want attention. They just want to maintain their business. If anything, black market retailers might care more about who they sell to than current (legal) gun salespeople.

#2 I keep hearing how if everyone were to "pack" we'd all be a lot safer. Serious question, has there been a reported case where an ordinary citizen packing either stopped or minimized the tragedy? I cannot recall any. Here in Utah, where "everyone" packs, we had a shooting just a few years ago up at Trolley Square. I don't recall any ordinary citizen blowing away the shooter. Perhaps all the packers ran away to save their own skins? Maybe they all missed? The shooter was eventually taken down by professionals. So if packing actually makes you "safer" why hasn't any "packer" stopped/minimized (any) of these shootings?
To me, this argument seems like a cheap parlor trick from the NRA attempting to sell more guns under the guise that it will actually make you "safer."

#3 Gun control talk being too soon. If we don't have the discussion IMMEDIATELY after one of these tragedies happen, then it won't happen. Just watch, in a few weeks this will be one bad memory as the rest of us go back to the daily grind. The national media will go back to bitching about the fiscal cliff. And the rest of us will, for all intents and purposes, forget about this tragedy. The time for action is now.

You are truly an idiot. I'll break it down for you point by point.
#1. Since when do black market dealers care about who or what they sell to? The only thing they care about is that their buyer doesn't immediately load the gun they just sold them and shoot the seller. It's so easy to get rid of identifying marks on a gun it's laughable. A little etching to alter the serial number. A little grinding and acid to destroy it. The only thing you can trace ammunition to is which gun shot it. That doesn't tell you who shot it or where they got it from. When you said "I'm no gun expert", that was a huge understatement.
#2. Earlier in this thread, franklin posted this:

I didn't mention at the time but I know the guy who was stabbed in the head with a knife a few months back after the guy attacked another man. They were saved by a concealed carry permit holder brandishing his weapon.

I'm sure with just a few minutes of research, many more instances could be found.
#3. Gun control is talked about ALL the time. I don't think a week goes by that I don't hear someone talking about it.

[Duck Rodgers]

I've lived in Japan for over 4 years. Guess who the only ones with guns are besides the police. Yep, the yakuza (mafia).

What are your thoughts on Japanese police overall? You ever had problems with them? They are pretty well known for harassing foreigners.