Page 16 of 105 FirstFirst ... 614151617182666 ... LastLast
Results 226 to 240 of 1564

Thread: Gun Control

  1. #226
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,831
    Total Rep Points
    1092
    Rep Adjustment Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    I just looked up there are about 94,000 elementary and secondary schools in the US. http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2007/overview...es/table_2.asp

    That would cost us less than $10bln @ $100,000 total cost per job. That's probably cheaper than enforcing more gun control laws, and much more effective. Get it done. Hell, fund two officers per school.
    Also, some of those schools already have a school cop, so it would be even cheaper.

    It's troubling to me that the left isn't even discussing this, they went straight to a full court press on gun control.

    It almost makes me wonder what's happening that I'm missing. This gun control distraction has to be the perfect distraction for something else. There's no net neutrality bill or outsourcing treaty set to expire is there?

  2. #227
    Senior Member TheSilencer1313's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Tooele, Utah
    Posts
    3,101
    Total Rep Points
    1156
    Rep Adjustment Power
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    I just looked up there are about 94,000 elementary and secondary schools in the US. http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2007/overview...es/table_2.asp

    That would cost us less than $10bln @ $100,000 total cost per job. That's probably cheaper than enforcing more gun control laws, and much more effective. Get it done. Hell, fund two officers per school.
    I'm actually ok with this idea, as it would work out just fine to have one to two officers in each school. This will never happen, but it's a good avenue to look towards.
    Metal detectors, bulletproof glass? What are we turning our schools into a police state now as well?

    Also, if a teacher or principal has a permit and training to carry, I don't see a reason why they wouldn't be able to carry at work as well. If certain teachers do not want to, then to each their own.
    Personally I would feel safer with my kids around a responsible teacher with a conceal and carry permit, than I would with them around some new age progressive that believes we can talk everything out in horrible situations.

    So in retrospect, get the officer idea done.... and cut wasteful spending in order to make it so.
    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered." - Thomas Jefferson

  3. #228
    Moderator Stoked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Southern Utah
    Posts
    21,763
    Total Rep Points
    28155
    Rep Adjustment Power
    100
    Alot of local school already have arrangements with their local police depts. My high school in Mississippi always had an officer on campus. Usually their car was parked right out front and they would be in that or the front office. We never had a problem on campus but they set that up with the local PD anyways.

    To be honest it was kind of comforting knowing an officer was on site. They (at least 1) came to every school event we had. Sports games, field day, graduation, prom...
    #BelieveInLindsey #BelieveInSnyder

    I Got a feeling that tonight's gonna be a good night; that tonight's gonna be a good night;
    that tonight's gonna be a good good night; wooh hoo (x4) - For Cy

  4. #229
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Drinkin haterade, ridin the hate train through hateville
    Posts
    13,410
    Total Rep Points
    32978
    Rep Adjustment Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSilencer1313 View Post
    So in retrospect, get the officer idea done.... and cut wasteful spending in order to make it so.
    Consider four points. 1. We're paying unemployment to millions of people who want to work. A large chunk of the money could come straight out of the extended benefits program. 2. These are stable jobs that lower overall unemployment costs and also help smooth business cycle fluctuations. 3. New legislation will be expensive to implement and enforce. 4. Deterrence saves money. It's hard to measure exactly how much, but this will save costs across the spectrum. For example, simply having an officer at schools full time will lower the burden on local juvenile courts.

  5. #230
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    In a ghetto near you. . . .
    Posts
    5,824
    Total Rep Points
    12060
    Rep Adjustment Power
    56
    I really like this leg of the discussion here.

    I wouldn't even squawk about the tax, the cop presence, and such. . . . . . my only reservation is to comment about the attitude of "public service" of this type. I think we need cops who are public-friendly as much as trained and capable to prevent harm or committed to protecting the kids and general public, not trained on just=== and I mean "just"====snap reflexive shooting at every sensory trigger. . . . .. and we need schoolteachers who better understand the value of true education as opposed to "trained to the task" compliance management as well. . . . .

    but the economics of prevention is an absolutely compelling truth. Insurance companies understand this truth. They are always lobbying for anything that will reduce their payout on a statistical basis. Like gambling casinos know, the odds rule. . . .and the old proverb is an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of "cure". . . . in this case the cost of prevention is heavily offset with the kinds of savings Franklin is alluding to. . . . and there's also the medical costs that statistically would be saved as well, which is statistically significant. . . . as well as "collateral" benefits.

    cops and kids could get a good start in some positive relations. I bet some areas would have lots of retired cops looking for jobs like this, too.

    so here we have an avenue that would not affect responsible gunowners, and that would probably have strong support from them as well as parents and law enforcement. I say "go" on this.

  6. #231
    Moderator Stoked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Southern Utah
    Posts
    21,763
    Total Rep Points
    28155
    Rep Adjustment Power
    100
    I agree babe. A couple of times the cop on duty had relatives attending that school. Such as nephews and cousins. That not only cneters them more on their job but also shows another side of the officer so they are not an imposing figure. It humanises them.

    I am a fan of it and think it should become national policy. Nothing is more important then the kids.
    #BelieveInLindsey #BelieveInSnyder

    I Got a feeling that tonight's gonna be a good night; that tonight's gonna be a good night;
    that tonight's gonna be a good good night; wooh hoo (x4) - For Cy

  7. #232
    Senior Member Scat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    5,421
    Total Rep Points
    6099
    Rep Adjustment Power
    38
    Quote Originally Posted by SaltyDawg View Post
    I promised myself I wasn't going to comment on this for a while, so I gave it a few days.

    The full on attack on gun rights by the left is downright scary. I put on MSNBC for a bit yesterday and it's literally all they talked about.

    My take is this, gun control is fine, but only if you impose the same restrictions on EVERYONE. Don't tell me I can't have an assault rifle, but give the police an unlimited supply of assault rifles.

    One law for everyone, that's real justice, right?

    There are way too many guns out there to try to control them now. A large portion of gun crimes committed are done by people who are already restricted from owning a gun.

    Criminals absolutely will get guns. If you make them illegal, you're only taking them away from the good guys.

    Put a school cop in every school. That would have been way more effective than banning assault rifles in this case.

    By the way, you can make your own guns with a 3d printer these days. If you outlaw guns, you'll only be creating a huge black market for criminals to get them without restriction. We already have a pretty big black market for that, just imagine if the local street thug selling them was making millions.

    It's a terrible idea.
    Dear Lord, kill me now. I agree with everything Salty just said... excuse me while I go to my happy place.

  8. #233
    Senior Member Scat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    5,421
    Total Rep Points
    6099
    Rep Adjustment Power
    38
    Quote Originally Posted by The Thriller View Post
    Or... A solution might be bringing the damn troops home to protect our own borders, schools, and malls... But that would mean we wouldn't be able to police the world without a draft....
    Nice... you're advocating a police state.

  9. #234
    Senior Member TheSilencer1313's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Tooele, Utah
    Posts
    3,101
    Total Rep Points
    1156
    Rep Adjustment Power
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by Scat View Post
    Nice... you're advocating a police state.
    Yeah no kidding.
    Thoughts like those were the reason bills like the NDAA went through, and Posse Comitatus was railroaded.
    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered." - Thomas Jefferson

  10. #235
    Moderator Stoked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Southern Utah
    Posts
    21,763
    Total Rep Points
    28155
    Rep Adjustment Power
    100
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSilencer1313 View Post
    Yeah no kidding.
    Thoughts like those were the reason bills like the NDAA went through, and Posse Comitatus was railroaded.
    I have a hard time believing that US soldiers will turn America into a police state. Having said that we always want to be informed and aware in case a move is made to turn America into a police state so that we can stop it.
    #BelieveInLindsey #BelieveInSnyder

    I Got a feeling that tonight's gonna be a good night; that tonight's gonna be a good night;
    that tonight's gonna be a good good night; wooh hoo (x4) - For Cy

  11. #236
    Senior Member Scat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    5,421
    Total Rep Points
    6099
    Rep Adjustment Power
    38
    An interesting article about mass shootings in the US.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...ngs-john-fund#

    A few things you won’t hear about from the saturation coverage of the Newtown, Conn., school massacre:

    Mass shootings are no more common than they have been in past decades, despite the impression given by the media. In fact, the high point for mass killings in the U.S. was 1929, according to criminologist Grant Duwe of the Minnesota Department of Corrections.

    Incidents of mass murder in the U.S. declined from 42 in the 1990s to 26 in the first decade of this century. The chances of being killed in a mass shooting are about what they are for being struck by lightning.

    Until the Newtown horror, the three worst K–12 school shootings ever had taken place in either Britain or Germany.

    Almost all of the public-policy discussion about Newtown has focused on a debate over the need for more gun control. In reality, gun control in a country that already has 200 million privately owned firearms is likely to do little to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals. We would be better off debating two taboo subjects — the laws that make it difficult to control people with mental illness and the growing body of evidence that “gun-free” zones, which ban the carrying of firearms by law-abiding individuals, don’t work.

    First, the mental-health issue. A lengthy study by Mother Jones magazine found that at least 38 of the 61 mass shooters in the past three decades “displayed signs of mental health problems prior to the killings.” New York Times columnist David Brooks and Cornell Law School professor William Jacobson have both suggested that the ACLU-inspired laws that make it so difficult to intervene and identify potentially dangerous people should be loosened. “Will we address mental-health and educational-privacy laws, which instill fear of legal liability for reporting potentially violent mentally ill people to law enforcement?” asks Professor Jacobson. “I doubt it.”

    Gun-free zones have been the most popular response to previous mass killings. But many law-enforcement officials say they are actually counterproductive. “Guns are already banned in schools. That is why the shootings happen in schools. A school is a ‘helpless-victim zone,’” says Richard Mack, a former Arizona sheriff. “Preventing any adult at a school from having access to a firearm eliminates any chance the killer can be stopped in time to prevent a rampage,” Jim Kouri, the public-information officer of the National Association of Chiefs of Police, told me earlier this year at the time of the Aurora, Colo., Batman-movie shooting. Indeed, there have been many instances — from the high-school shooting by Luke Woodham in Mississippi, to the New Life Church shooting in Colorado Springs, Colo. — where a killer has been stopped after someone got a gun from a parked car or elsewhere and confronted the shooter.

    Economists John Lott and William Landes conducted a groundbreaking study in 1999, and found that a common theme of mass shootings is that they occur in places where guns are banned and killers know everyone will be unarmed, such as shopping malls and schools.

    I spoke with Lott after the Newtown shooting, and he confirmed that nothing has changed to alter his findings. He noted that the Aurora shooter, who killed twelve people earlier this year, had a choice of seven movie theaters that were showing the Batman movie he was obsessed with. All were within a 20-minute drive of his home. The Cinemark Theater the killer ultimately chose wasn’t the closest, but it was the only one that posted signs saying it banned concealed handguns carried by law-abiding individuals. All of the other theaters allowed the approximately 4 percent of Colorado adults who have a concealed-handgun permit to enter with their weapons.

    “Disarming law-abiding citizens leaves them as sitting ducks,” Lott told me. “A couple hundred people were in the Cinemark Theater when the killer arrived. There is an extremely high probability that one or more of them would have had a legal concealed handgun with him if they had not been banned.”

    Lott offers a final damning statistic: “With just one single exception, the attack on congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson in 2011, every public shooting since at least 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns.”

    There is no evidence that private holders of concealed-carry permits (which are either easy to obtain or not even required in more than 40 states) are any more irresponsible with firearms than the police. According to a 2005 to 2007 study by researchers at the University of Wisconsin and Bowling Green State University, police nationwide were convicted of firearms violations at least at a 0.002 percent annual rate. That’s about the same rate as holders of carry permits in the states with “shall issue” laws.

    Despite all of this evidence, the magical thinking behind gun-free zones is unlikely to be questioned in the wake of the Newtown killings. Having such zones gives people a false sense of security, and woe to the politician or business owner who now suggests that a “gun-free zone” revert back to what critics would characterize as “a wild, wild West” status. Indeed, shortly after the Cinemark attack in Colorado, the manager of the nearby Northfield Theaters changed its policy and began banning concealed handguns.

    In all of the fevered commentary over the Newtown killings, you will hear little discussion of the fact that we may be making our families and neighbors less safe by expanding the places where guns aren’t allowed. But that is precisely what we may be doing. Both criminals and the criminally insane have shown time and time again that those laws are the least of the problems they face as they carry out their evil deeds.

  12. #237
    Senior Member Scat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    5,421
    Total Rep Points
    6099
    Rep Adjustment Power
    38
    So, has anyone heard about this? I had to dig to find the story. Not a peep in the national news...

    http://redflagnews.com/headlines/dev...in-san-antonio

    Gunfire erupted at the Mayan Palace Theatre on Southwest Military Sunday night just before 9:30 pm. This shooting comes just days after a deadly rampage at a school in Connecticut and sparks memories of the the mass slaying at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo.

    An armed off-duty deputy working security was able to take down the shooter before he could kill anyone.

    Investigators tell News 4 WOAI the gunman is 19-year-old Jesus Manuel Garcia. They say he worked at the China Garden restaurant right next to the Mayan Palace Theater. Police say Garcia opened fire at China Garden because of relationship problems with his girlfriend who also worked at the restaurant, although she was not present at the time. Officers explain that Garcia then continued to fire his weapon across the parking lot and into the theater. Garcia even opened fire on a San Antonio Police Department patrol car explained Detective Lou Antu, spokesman for the Bexar County Sherriff's Office.

    “Everybody was just coming out of the side of the theater, running out the emergency exits. And everyone was screaming and running,” explained a moviegoer named Megan.

    Garcia was finally stopped by a deputy who was working an off-duty job at the theater. The deputy shot Garcia four times. "The officer involved, she took the appropriate action to try to keep everyone safe in the movie theater," Antu said. Antu says the gunman never made it into the theater itself, thanks largely to the heroic work of the off duty deputy. "She did what she felt she had to do," Antu said. "I feel that she saved a lot of lives by taking the action she had to take." Garcia has since undergone surgery and is in stable condition at San Antonio Military Medical Center (SAMMC). He's being charged with aggravated assault for shooting at an officer and shooting a bystander. That bystander is listed in stable condition.

  13. #238
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    In a ghetto near you. . . .
    Posts
    5,824
    Total Rep Points
    12060
    Rep Adjustment Power
    56
    Quote Originally Posted by Scat View Post
    So, has anyone heard about this? I had to dig to find the story. Not a peep in the national news...

    http://redflagnews.com/headlines/dev...in-san-antonio
    ya we know the national media is trying to hoot and holler to move the herd into the corrals on gun control. No way are they going to point to anything that undermines their agenda.

    This kind of hype is what even Salty has noticed. . . . I bet a lot of Americans know this now. . . . the ones who don't get it have drunk the cool-aid and just can't be expected to comprehend.

  14. #239
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Houston, Tx
    Posts
    2,516
    Total Rep Points
    2084
    Rep Adjustment Power
    23
    http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/...useronline.pdf

    This article was posted earlier. It is a really interesting read.
    Always remember that you are absolutely unique.
    Just like everyone else.
    -Margaret Mead

  15. #240
    Senior Member WhiskyPriest's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,774
    Total Rep Points
    2815
    Rep Adjustment Power
    26
    Thanks for finding that story scat. I owe you some rep.

  16.  

     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •