Gun Control

[SaltyDawg]

In your post say "You're okay right now, and haven't done anything wrong, but we think you might do something wrong someday, so you're not allowed to buy any guns."
I dont think he was saying that.... you and i and most people can still buy guns, we just have to go to stores that sell them and pass background checks..... He said "no more internet sales or sales at gun shows or other less regulated venues in my opinion, at least not without some very stringent checks and balances in place."
So stop putting words in peoples mouths..... you are acting as if he said Ban guns, no guns for anyone. which is not at all what he was implying.

No, she said the bad people were not the problem, but the unbalanced people are the problem.

To me, that means she is talking about people who are fine and then suddenly snap one day.

[SaltyDawg]

Most of the gun control ideas that people are suggesting will not even effect most of us so i dont understand why pro gun people are freaking out.

Oh no ksl stopped selling guns..... So what? just go to a gun store to get your guns. Whats the big deal?

If ksl stopped selling coffee tables, then i would go to wallmart or rc willey or something to get a coffee table... and i like coffee tables and use them all the time but i would't freak out if ksl stopped selling them.

That's fine for you. But if I want to SELL my coffee table, or if I don't want to spend the money in a brand new coffee table, RC Willey is obviously not a good choice.

[fishonjazz]

No, she said the bad people were not the problem, but the unbalanced people are the problem.

To me, that means she is talking about people who are fine and then suddenly snap one day.

Again salty.... he/she said "no more internet sales or sales at gun shows or other less regulated venues in my opinion, at least not without some very stringent checks and balances in place."

Then you responded by saying "You're okay right now, and haven't done anything wrong, but we think you might do something wrong someday, so you're not allowed to buy any guns."

How was your response relevant? Moevillini was saying that if you ARE in fact ok at the time you are trying to buy the gun, then you would be able to.

[fishonjazz]

That's fine for you. But if I want to SELL my coffee table, or if I don't want to spend the money in a brand new coffee table, RC Willey is obviously not a good choice.

The point is you can still get guns.... Thats the important thing right?
I thought you want to be able get guns..... well go get some. No one is stopping you.
What are you so afraid of salty? Its wierd how the people who seem to love guns are the one who are so afraid all the time. Coincedence? Or does owning guns automatically make you fearful?

[fishonjazz]

Salty it seems like you and many other pro gun people are very scared/concerned/worried right now... why is that the case exactly? What are you worried is going to happen?

[SaltyDawg]

Again salty.... he/she said "no more internet sales or sales at gun shows or other less regulated venues in my opinion, at least not without some very stringent checks and balances in place."

Then you responded by saying "You're okay right now, and haven't done anything wrong, but we think you might do something wrong someday, so you're not allowed to buy any guns."

How was your response relevant? Moevillini was saying that if you ARE in fact ok at the time you are trying to buy the gun, then you would be able to.

Was that the entire post? No? Well then, I would say chances are I was talking about a different part of the post. You know, the part I said I was talking about when I mentioned the bad people not being the problem, but the imbalanced people.

[Stoked]

for the most part, the "bad element" sort of sticks to its own kind...

it's the unbalanced (who are generally not what I think of when someone refers to the "bad element) that go out and randomly shoot strangers for no apparent reasons

we know how Adam Lanza got his guns, but what about Jared Loughner, Dylan Klebold, James Holmes, the VaTech and NIU shooters - where did the system break down as far as they are concerned?

at any rate, the key part of your statement - that there are "just too many guns" is critical

and not just that, but it seems to me (despite everyone's arguments here to the contrary) that there are just TOO MANY GUN OWNERS who have TOO CAVALIER an attitude about their weapons.

definitely needs to be mandatory jail time for anyone whose gun is used in a crime, whether it was stolen or lost - - especially if they failed to report it

and no more internet sales or sales at gun shows or other less regulated venues in my opinion, at least not without some very stringent checks and balances in place

I know some of you will howl at that, but come on...

is there any room for compromise on this issue?

Absolutely not. I have two firearms in a safe. If my house gets robbed, they take the safe, open it, get the guns and use them in another robbery where someone is shot with my guns I go to jail?

Like hell.

[SaltyDawg]

The point is you can still get guns.... Thats the important thing right?
I thought you want to be able get guns..... well go get some. No one is stopping you.
What are you so afraid of salty? Its wierd how the people who seem to love guns are the one who are so afraid all the time. Coincedence? Or does owning guns automatically make you fearful?

Yes, I want to be able to get guns. At no point did I say that was the ONLY important thing. I also want to be able to buy guns, clips, scopes, cases, cleaning kits, etc, used.

In addition to that, I want to be able to SELL my stuff used.

You're obviously not into this so you don't know, but it's not at all uncommon for someone to buy a gun, go shooting with it a few times, then realize they like some other gun better. Maybe it fits their hand better, or the right feels better, the sites are better, or they just shoot better with it. They then sell that gun used (and ksl is the place for that in Utah, gun shows are the place everywhere else) and then use the money to buy the one they want.

You're premise of "go buy them all brand new if you want them, then keep them for life" is nonsense.

[SaltyDawg]

Salty it seems like you and many other pro gun people are very scared/concerned/worried right now... why is that the case exactly? What are you worried is going to happen?

Because once the government gets acceptance on gun control, there is no limit to where it will lead. When this "sensible gun control" doesn't stop the mass shootings (which it won't, for the reasons I've been saying) then we'll only get stricter gun control regulations.

[Stoked]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/20...written-on-it/

You dumb ass! They just had it horribly and devestatingly proven to them in a way that will affect them forever. God people are beyond idiotic.

[vegas]

it's a who do you trust question. the general public or government. I think there are good people both places. I also know that through history when a government gains enough power it is only a matter of time before absolute power corrupts absolutely. again this is a right that our founders saw imperative after spilling their blood for our freedom. gun crimes happened back then too. I'm old fashioned and I don't think the time for this right has passed. I haven't even fired my gun for years, but its a scary thought that someone would regulate it or heaven forbid take it or quit selling cartridges. that sounds like another country.

[candrew]

Because once the government gets acceptance on gun control, there is no limit to where it will lead. When this "sensible gun control" doesn't stop the mass shootings (which it won't, for the reasons I've been saying) then we'll only get stricter gun control regulations.

Except the fact that the exact opposite happened when the assault weapons ban signed in 1993 expired without little resistance in 2004.

The NRA has completely bought the republican party and a good chunk of democratic party. This will blow over and whatever changes we imagine will come of this will be mostly if not completely undone within the next 8-12 years.

[franklin]

I've been reading into a few mass murders. In Canada, Marc Lépine planned his rampage for months. In South Korea, Woo Bum-kon was an alcoholic police officer who took his weapons right out of the police armory. Poorer countries tend to use incendiaries. Oceania and Maritime Southeast Asia rampages have relied almost exclusively on melee weapons (13 events with 12 dead minimum).

Guns aren't the issue. Although I can see some new restrictions on AR-15's, it won't be a solution.

[Qman]

I've been reading into a few mass murders. In Canada, Marc Lépine planned his rampage for months. In South Korea, Woo Bum-kon was an alcoholic police officer who took his weapons right out of the police armory. Poorer countries tend to use incendiaries. Oceania and Maritime Southeast Asia rampages have relied almost exclusively on melee weapons (13 events with 12 dead minimum).

Guns aren't the issue. Although I can see some new restrictions on AR-15's, it won't be a solution.

Thanks for doing some research. Who knew that people can figure out how to obtain weapons whether it is legal or not. Also mass murders do not require guns.

[SaltyDawg]

Except the fact that the exact opposite happened when the assault weapons ban signed in 1993 expired without little resistance in 2004.

The NRA has completely bought the republican party and a good chunk of democratic party. This will blow over and whatever changes we imagine will come of this will be mostly if not completely undone within the next 8-12 years.

I don't want to have to sit through 2 terms of the most incompetent president ever, and the worst terrorist attack on American soil, just to get back to square 1.

Let's keep moving forward, rather than take a huge step backwards on the premise that we will eventually get back to where we are today.