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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSilencer1313 View Post
    Hmm..... so "Gun Control Advocates", do you have an explanation for this??
    Why do I need to explain two unconnected phenomena acting in an unconnected fashion?
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    High Definition Gameface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
    Say, as in Hurricane Katrina? Any evidence that those with AR-15s did better in protecting their property than those with ordinary pistols, revolvers, etc.? How big of a disaster does it take for this effect to show?



    Being able to shoot fewer bullets in a given time-span means fewer people get shot, right?
    AR-15s don't shot any faster than any semi-auto pistol. Where are you getting this crap? Both require 1 pull of the trigger to fire 1 round.

    Please, with your massive gun expertise, please tell us what regulations we need to prevent gun violence.

  3. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameface View Post
    AR-15s don't shot any faster than any semi-auto pistol. Where are you getting this crap? Both require 1 pull of the trigger to fire 1 round.

    Please, with your massive gun expertise, please tell us what regulations we need to prevent gun violence.
    Then what's their advantage when firing into a crowd? I've always acknowledged I don't know much about guns. It doesn't help when those who do know something post statements that seem self-contradictory. It doesn't help when requests for evidence get derision, rather than evidence.
    .
    I don't recall claiming gun violence could be prevented. However, since I acknowledge your expertise, would you agree that the ability to shoot fewer bullets will generally mean fewer people will be killed, or do yo0u have a reason to discount that?
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

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  4. #469
    Senior Member Scat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
    would you agree that the ability to shoot fewer bullets will generally mean fewer people will be killed, or do yo0u have a reason to discount that?
    It takes all of about 5 seconds to eject an empty clip and slap a full one in. The amount of bullets is only applicable if the shooter goes in with just one full clip and has to reload said single clip. As evidenced by recent shootings, the perps have all had multiple, ready to use clips with them.

  5. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
    Then what's their advantage when firing into a crowd? I've always acknowledged I don't know much about guns. It doesn't help when those who do know something post statements that seem self-contradictory. It doesn't help when requests for evidence get derision, rather than evidence.
    .
    I don't recall claiming gun violence could be prevented. However, since I acknowledge your expertise, would you agree that the ability to shoot fewer bullets will generally mean fewer people will be killed, or do yo0u have a reason to discount that?

    OK first, sorry for being an ass.

    Second, while a school is a fairly spacious building my first choice of weapon if I was going to use it inside a building would be a hand gun. Longer rifles are cumbersome and often difficult to get on target as you're moving through tight spaces and around corners. A hand gun has a certain advantage in that situation, especially since you'll most likely be firing at relatively close range. If, on the other hand, a mob was attacking my house and I was firing from a fixed position where I had a vantage point from which I could see their approach I would prefer a rifle. A rifle may be harder to maneuver and fire quickly and accurately in a confined space but its longer sight radius (the distance from the rear sight to the front sight) and longer barrel make it much much more accurate at intermediate distances. A scoped rifle is by far the best choice for anything that would be considered long range. But for defending myself in a fixed location a large magazine and a semi-auto rifle is the best choice. Each weapon has it's advantages and it's drawbacks.

    The shooter at Sandy Hook fired 11 rounds at a single small child. That on the one hand is horrific. On the other it speaks to his derangement. That makes no sense and gained him no advantage. The child would have fared no better having been shot once or twice with standard hand-gun ammo.

    I don't want to get too technical but I want to be honest. Hand guns kick more when fired rapidly. Partly due to how they are griped and partly because of how much they weigh and how their weight is distributed. So in a sense it is possible to fire a semi-auto rifle accurately at a higher fire rate. However, that advantage is hugely mitigated in a confined space. You have to swing that longer barrel around and take it off of targets in order to get around corners. In an open field it has all the advantages because you can leave it pointed in the general direction of your targets while taking advantage of it's reduced recoil.

    But I've heard so many times how these "assault rifles" are capable of rapid fire. It's crap. You pull the trigger and you fire one round. Even with an AR-15 if you attempt to fire rapidly you'll get barrel rise and recoil that will take you off target. Firing quickly is dumb for the most part. Only very well trained shooters can maintain a high degree of accuracy and fire rapidly, regardless of the weapon.

    As for firing into a crowd. I'm not talking about that. If a mob is attacking me I am taking aimed shots at prioritized threats. The ones coming with weapons or leading the charge. There is no place for a decent human being to be popping off shots into a crowd. That's never been what I've been talking about, ever. In that situation a hand gun is less accurate. That's why I would want a semi-auto rifle. To maintain a higher degree of accuracy so that only the target is hit.

    Go to a gun range and see how well the average person shots a hand gun. Beyond 15 yards it seem like most people are lucky to get within 1ft of their target point. Go to 30 yards or 50 yards and it gets far far worse. Most people train with hand guns to hit things at 5-15ft. And that's at a range. It doesn't translate well to what they're capable of in the heat of the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scat View Post
    It takes all of about 5 seconds to eject an empty clip and slap a full one in. The amount of bullets is only applicable if the shooter goes in with just one full clip and has to reload said single clip. As evidenced by recent shootings, the perps have all had multiple, ready to use clips with them.
    IMO 5 seconds is more time than zero seconds... again that is just my opinion

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishonjazz View Post
    IMO 5 seconds is more time than zero seconds... again that is just my opinion
    5 seconds is an eternity longer than it takes a trained shooter.


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    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameface View Post
    5 seconds is an eternity longer than it takes a trained shooter.

    I was mostly just being a sarcastic dick.... sorry about that.

    BTW i liked your post before this one... good info

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    This is hillarious: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...ushmaster.html

    Oh please do. You'll create a springboard for competition. Taking out the largest will create 100 newer small companies. How benevolent!
    No Mediocrity

  10. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
    Then what's their advantage when firing into a crowd? I've always acknowledged I don't know much about guns. It doesn't help when those who do know something post statements that seem self-contradictory. It doesn't help when requests for evidence get derision, rather than evidence.
    .
    I don't recall claiming gun violence could be prevented. However, since I acknowledge your expertise, would you agree that the ability to shoot fewer bullets will generally mean fewer people will be killed, or do yo0u have a reason to discount that?
    Solving the horrific multiple shooting problem really comes back to just having someone on the site who for all informational purposes available to the public, is armed and capable of returning fire. . . . or even just one little old lady with guts to charge, screaming, right at the perp.

    These mental nutjobs have chosen their place of "business" based on an expectation of no resistance or returned fire, and have planned to end their own lives themselves before giving anyone else the satisfaction.

    When they've gone as far as they can with their cowardly killing spree, and anything pops up that looks like could take him down, these nutjobs always blow their own brains out.

    Like I said before, Obama knows how to protect his own kids in school. He selects a school with a heavily armed contingent of securtiy personnel.

    So, here's a question about elitists. If someone thinks his own kids are worth protecting, but doesn't really think your kids are worth it, is he really an elitist, or just a stooge doing what he's told?

  11. #476
    Moderator Stoked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Solving the horrific multiple shooting problem really comes back to just having someone on the site who for all informational purposes available to the public, is armed and capable of returning fire. . . . or even just one little old lady with guts to charge, screaming, right at the perp.

    These mental nutjobs have chosen their place of "business" based on an expectation of no resistance or returned fire, and have planned to end their own lives themselves before giving anyone else the satisfaction.

    When they've gone as far as they can with their cowardly killing spree, and anything pops up that looks like could take him down, these nutjobs always blow their own brains out.

    Like I said before, Obama knows how to protect his own kids in school. He selects a school with a heavily armed contingent of securtiy personnel.

    So, here's a question about elitists. If someone thinks his own kids are worth protecting, but doesn't really think your kids are worth it, is he really an elitist, or just a stooge doing what he's told?
    From what I understand at least two people (principal and school psychologist) charged the shooter at Sandy hook.

    I am in favor of schools having a trained security guard(s). I am not wild on the idea of armed teachers.

    Also keep in mind that Sandy Hook already had some defensive minded measures in place. Such as automatically locking doors when the bell rang. Shooter still got in.

    He also obtained the guns illegally (stole them from his mother).
    #BelieveInLindsey #BelieveInSnyder

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoked View Post
    From what I understand at least two people (principal and school psychologist) charged the shooter at Sandy hook.

    I am in favor of schools having a trained security guard(s). I am not wild on the idea of armed teachers.

    Also keep in mind that Sandy Hook already had some defensive minded measures in place. Such as automatically locking doors when the bell rang. Shooter still got in.

    He also obtained the guns illegally (stole them from his mother).
    I could go either way on the armed teachers.

    I'm definitely in favor of a cop or 2 at every school. That would help end this nonsense all by itself.

    On the teachers, maybe they should be offered an incentive. Maybe pay them a few grand per year extra if they complete some training and agree to be a security enforcer or whatever you want to call it.

    This training would obviously include firearms, but would also cover calling the police, not panicking, how and where to hide the kids, etc.

    They could then be required to pass a refresher course every couple years or so in order to maintain the certification.

    I'm not necessarily for or against this. I haven't given it enough thought to really consider any arguments against it. I'm definitely for the cops in every school though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scat View Post
    It takes all of about 5 seconds to eject an empty clip and slap a full one in. The amount of bullets is only applicable if the shooter goes in with just one full clip and has to reload said single clip. As evidenced by recent shootings, the perps have all had multiple, ready to use clips with them.
    Some of the current legislation being discussed requires clips that take more effort to reload.
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    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

    Any habitual action, such as eating or dressing, may be performed on the appropriate occasion, without any need of thought, and the same seems to be true of a painfully large proportion of our talk. -- Bertrand Russell

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  15. #479
    Senior Member Scat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
    Some of the current legislation being discussed requires clips that take more effort to reload.
    And if the shooter simply takes a dozen pre-loaded clips with him?

    All of these measures being recommended are not going to stop the types of crimes that have been perpetrated. They are knee jerk reactions to horrific crimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameface View Post
    That's why I would want a semi-auto rifle. To maintain a higher degree of accuracy so that only the target is hit.
    Thank you for the explanation. You seem to know what you're talking about, and I never hear details like this from news stories. I will try to remember it.

    I can see your point about rapid fire increasing recoil. Do we have any knowledge of whther these school shooters used a rapid-fire mode anyhow, and how it affected the casualties?
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

    Any habitual action, such as eating or dressing, may be performed on the appropriate occasion, without any need of thought, and the same seems to be true of a painfully large proportion of our talk. -- Bertrand Russell

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