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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #961
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    It explicitly denies to the federal government any say whatsoever about what people might use their guns for.
    No, not explicitly. If it were explicit, you would be able to pull out a quote stating that concept.
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

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    I spent about 6 months while I was in the Navy assigned to temporary duty in the Shipboard Security department. Being in security I had to perform armed patrols of the ship while it was underway. In order to qualify to carry a weapon for these patrols I had to get my 9mm qual. Here's how the Navy trained and armed sailors aboard ship:

    First I went to a class. This was a 30min class packed with over 60 people. A single instructor stood at the front of the class. First he holds up the pistol and says, "this is a pistol" then he goes through and tells where the sights are, where the trigger is and how it works, where the safety is, how to load and unload a magazine, a couple ways you can hold the pistol, a few ways you shouldn't hold the pistol, the way you're supposed to line the sights up, a couple ways that you should stand while firing. Then he shows us how to remove the slide (aka field strip) and put it back together.

    Yay, we're ready for actual shooting quals the next morning, we have officially been trained.

    The next morning there are hundreds of people who need to shoot. Re-quals didn't need to take the class. We're at sea and we have targets set up at the edge of one of the air-craft elevators. I think 10 people at a time go up and are issued their magazines (I think they give you 7 magazines, each with 7 rounds) and a psitol. Then everyone goes up to the firing line where there are three gunners mates helping people out. Another gunners mate is off to the side running the show.



    The shooting qual involves shooting at 3, 7 and 15 yards, from standing position, kneeling position, weak hand and strong hand, with magazine changes and without. 49 shots later and you're either qualified to carry a gun in the Navy or you're not.



    There was a slightly older woman (by Navy standards) next to me on the firing line. She was a warrant officer. She had to qual with the pistol because as a warrant officer she was required to stand Officer of the Watch (OOW) on the quarterdeck for her duty section, which is an armed watch. She was visibly trembling. Shaking. She was fumbling with the controls of the pistol and she was flinching badly every time she fired. She was absolutely terrified. I'm guessing this was possibly the first time she had ever fired a gun. Unfortunately for me her shooting was so bad that she hit the edge of my target (the target supports were several feet apart and we were shooting at full sized abdomen silhouette targets) and they counted her errant shot as mine and ruined my perfect score.

    I don't think she passed on that first try but they put her back in line and she had another try or two.

    That's the standard I saw in the Navy as to who was qualified to carry a gun. Forgive me if I'm not impressed.

    But the bigger point I want to make is that with that lack of actual training many people were very competent in their ability to handle the pistol. You want to know who those people were? They were people who learned how to shoot outside the military, using civilian weapons, taught by family members. Everyone I ever knew in the Navy who was competent with a firearm learned how to use firearms before they joined.

    I wonder how much more effective our military forces are because the people in the military have civilian access to firearms. Even more that there is a strong gun culture in the U.S. and people who are interested in the military are often also part of the American gun culture in some way. I've seen the videos of rag-tag morons firing weapons at the U.S. forces in places like Afghanistan and Iraq. I'm often struck by the lack of aiming or even proper holding of their "assault weapons." I wonder, if grandpa and uncle Joe had taken them out into the country and shot up an old VCR and phone book now and then would they have been a lot more trouble for our guys? I kind of think so.

  3. #963
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoked View Post
    Cops buying AR-15s which some members of congress now want to ban.
    I think that is a mistake, as well. Simply giving more bullets to police does not increase safety.
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameface View Post
    I spent about 6 months while I was in the Navy assigned to temporary duty in the Shipboard Security department. ...
    Good post with interesting points. I would hope training for field units (I would expect more typically in the Army and Marines) is more extensive, but any training has better results from a higher starting point.
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

    Any habitual action, such as eating or dressing, may be performed on the appropriate occasion, without any need of thought, and the same seems to be true of a painfully large proportion of our talk. -- Bertrand Russell

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    Moderator Stoked's Avatar
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    I agree GF. Those I have seen raised around firearms and taught its use seem to be generally more proficient than those that learn to use them as an adult. They are more comfortable and relaxed while using their weapon.

    Speaking of which, I think it is time I took my daughters to the range again.
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    So does anyone know how likely it is for the proposed AWB 2.0 to pass? My guess is that it will not pass, not as it is.

    I read this: http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/24/politi...ils/index.html and personally I think this is a big stupid joke. There is nothing of substance about this "ban." Those who oppose it are being labeled as extremists and gun-fetish nut-jobs. Well, I oppose it. It accomplishes nothing good. It bans aesthetic features of certain scary looking rifles. This is not what I believe we should base our gun policy on.

    This legislation is a happy pill for gun-ignorant hoplophobes and nothing more.

  7. #967
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameface View Post
    So does anyone know how likely it is for the proposed AWB 2.0 to pass? My guess is that it will not pass, not as it is.

    I read this: http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/24/politi...ils/index.html and personally I think this is a big stupid joke. There is nothing of substance about this "ban." Those who oppose it are being labeled as extremists and gun-fetish nut-jobs. Well, I oppose it. It accomplishes nothing good. It bans aesthetic features of certain scary looking rifles. This is not what I believe we should base our gun policy on.

    This legislation is a happy pill for gun-ignorant hoplophobes and nothing more.
    I agree that it will not pass. It might make it past the Senate (50/50 chance) but there is no way it will make it thru the reublican controlled House, no way. Especially when there are Dems like Matheson who I doubt will vote for it out of self preservation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameface View Post
    I spent about 6 months while I was in the Navy assigned to temporary duty in the Shipboard Security department.

    ' ' ' ' ' '
    I wonder how much more effective our military forces are because the people in the military have civilian access to firearms. Even more that there is a strong gun culture in the U.S. and people who are interested in the military are often also part of the American gun culture in some way. I've seen the videos of rag-tag morons firing weapons at the U.S. forces in places like Afghanistan and Iraq. I'm often struck by the lack of aiming or even proper holding of their "assault weapons." I wonder, if grandpa and uncle Joe had taken them out into the country and shot up an old VCR and phone book now and then would they have been a lot more trouble for our guys? I kind of think so.
    Excellent points throughout this post. . . .

    My father took me and my group of brothers out to shoot when I was about nine. The older bunch were better trained because he did it more for them. One older brother, and an uncle became professional competitive marksmen. My brother did a stint in the navy during the Korean War, and his job was, so I gathered when I was very young, to shoot and detonate stuff in the water like mines. . . . I was just proud of him. But he was trained by my dad and our uncles.

    I say I don't know anything about guns because I know some people who really do, and have a notion of how much more there is to know.

    This type of training is and has always been an important asset to our nation.

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  10. #969
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  11. #970
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    http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/29/us/han...html?hpt=hp_c1

    Seems CNN is admiting that the proposed gun control laws in the house/senate won't do much if anything. It instead focuses on something more effective such as the mental health and the mentally ills access to weapons.
    #BelieveInLindsey #BelieveInSnyder

  12. #971
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoked View Post
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/29/us/han...html?hpt=hp_c1

    Seems CNN is admiting that the proposed gun control laws in the house/senate won't do much if anything. It instead focuses on something more effective such as the mental health and the mentally ills access to weapons.
    Which also won't do much, if anything.
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

    Any habitual action, such as eating or dressing, may be performed on the appropriate occasion, without any need of thought, and the same seems to be true of a painfully large proportion of our talk. -- Bertrand Russell

  13. #972
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
    Which also won't do much, if anything.
    I think it will be much more effective towards stopping these mass shootings but the number of overall handgun deaths are here to stay.
    #BelieveInLindsey #BelieveInSnyder

  14. #973
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoked View Post
    I think it will be much more effective towards stopping these mass shootings but the number of overall handgun deaths are here to stay.
    The people in the various mental health databases will just acquire their guns illegally, right?
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

    Any habitual action, such as eating or dressing, may be performed on the appropriate occasion, without any need of thought, and the same seems to be true of a painfully large proportion of our talk. -- Bertrand Russell

  15. #974
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
    The people in the various mental health databases will just acquire their guns illegally, right?
    In same cases, such as Sandy Hook, that is right. In some cases no. However going after the guns of law abiding citizens is not an acceptable answer. No matter how much some wish it to be so.

    Prevent those incappable of responsible ownership, thru mental health and criminal records, from easy access.

    Despite how you would attempt to cloud that issue it is fairly straight forward.
    #BelieveInLindsey #BelieveInSnyder

  16. #975
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoked View Post
    However going after the guns of law abiding citizens is not an acceptable answer.
    I believe in reasoning from evidence, not first principles.
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

    Any habitual action, such as eating or dressing, may be performed on the appropriate occasion, without any need of thought, and the same seems to be true of a painfully large proportion of our talk. -- Bertrand Russell

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