Jazz are mediocre and on track to remain mediocre unless they make good moves

[zman1527]

The hypothetical I'm talking about is that 'the Jazz could trade these guys for x, y or z." The Jazz have never played someone to showcase their talent for trade. This is not the style (and I don't disagree). The problem is is that we're grasping at this to explain baffling game-decisions. Last year we kept saying we were playing Bell and Howard to showcase them for a trade. This was not the case. We were playing them, apparently, because we thought they put us in the est position to win, as evidenced by Howard being reinserted to the starting lineup after being injured in the playoffs. The Jazz don't allocate playing time based off hypotheticals (trades), they allocate playing time off what they think will make us competitive and no matter how hard it is to swallow, this is honestly the low we've sunk to. We are playing Al and Paul big minutes, and sitting Favors and Kanter, not because we're showcasing for trade, but because we think we haven't hit our peak with this team and we want to see that unfold.

Totally agree. I think that Ty sees the great games, beating the Spurs, and in his head that is where the team should be and can be. He thinks they are on the cusp of greatness, they just need to execute a little better. And he is a firm believer in the vets, having just said something along the lines of "road wins come from having veteran players who know what they are about". Notice how when they got destroyed by the suns that Al and Sap got MORE minutes than normal and Fav/Kanter got fewer. And Hayward gets pulled if he is a bit off, while Foye gets his minutes regardless. Corbin is not a developer of young talent.

[Revolution 9]

haha! yeah sure thing buddy - i'll get right on that.

i presume we're still talking about burks here and we're obviously gonna have to agree to disagree on it before this turns into a ten page ****fight

(for the record though, pulling out a single instance of satisfactory defensive effort doesn't make you any more right than me if i were to direct you to any one of his boneheaded and laissez faire nights.)

like i stated in my first post; i'm all for the guy getting it together and earning some playing time. i don't know why he's not getting any minutes but i'm sure as hell not going to apologise to anyone for it. so many on here seem to think they've got it all figured out - fire corbin and burks becomes an all-star. trade jefferson and we'll win a title. it's gotten well beyond comical. if any of us had any real credentials, insight or unique knowledge about the situation we'd be on a sideline somewhere getting paid, not talking smack on a forum and pointing fingers at coaches and execs for their favorite unproven player not turning into their personal basketball wet dream.

passion and support for your team is one thing but it just seems to me like too many people around here are ready to turn vigilante over a guy like burks who for all we've learned so far could possibly be the next kirk snyder, deshawn stevenson, morris almond, junie lewis or corey freakin crowder. what happened to all the intelligent conversation that used to go down?

anyway, i'm out.

go jazz etc.

We love to make a passing attempt at intelligent conversation around here, but a heads up avoiding the filter is not a good way to start.

I just don't see anything that resembles "kirk snyder, deshawn stevenson, morris almond, junie lewis or corey freakin crowder". Salo it seems you have your mind made up.
You agree with Corbin, and think for whatever reason he hasn't earned minutes. You are fine with Foye getting all the playtime, and it's all on Burks. You use extremes for your arguement. Oh we just fire Corbin, and Burks becomes an All Star. Not too many people are saying he's an
allstar. Who knows Salo maybe Alec is a jerk, and a pain in the ass behind closed doors. Although Corbin said himself at the beginning of year Alec worked his butt off, and deserved to play. Which makes it hard to understand.

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

We love to make a passing attempt at intelligent conversation around here, but a heads up avoiding the filter is not a good way to start.

I just don't see anything that resembles "kirk snyder, deshawn stevenson, morris almond, junie lewis or corey freakin crowder". Salo it seems you have your mind made up.
You agree with Corbin, and think for whatever reason he hasn't earned minutes. You are fine with Foye getting all the playtime, and it's all on Burks. You use extremes for your arguement. Oh we just fire Corbin, and Burks becomes an All Star. Not too many people are saying he's an
allstar. Who knows Salo maybe Alec is a jerk, and a pain in the ass behind closed doors. Although Corbin said himself at the beginning of year Alec worked his butt off, and deserved to play. Which makes it hard to understand.

I thought he was just using extremes in some things to prove a point and that some of the people on the fire Corbin, play Burks side are using extremes. He did say he doesn't know why he's getting DNP's and would like to See Burks play some minutes he's just not as upset for the reasons he explained.
I am in that thinking as well, I do not think Burks deserves DNP's and would like to see him getting some minutes like at least 10min a game and then go from there to see if he can get more minutes like I hope he could.

[salo]

Comparing Carroll to Burks is retarded. Carroll is a tough energy guy who can sometimes shoot. He is a valuable role player. His best skill is playing hard all the time.

Burks is a superior athlete and basketball player. He is an inferior role player to Carroll. Yes, Burks' defensive effort needs to become more consistent. When his effort is there his defense is very good. Burks might be the best finisher on the team. He certainly the best penetrator. We need to find a way to maximize his talents. Perhaps he is suited to be a scorer off the bench.

Also if you are focusing on who is better for this team right now. Carroll fits the role better. However Burks' talent is far superior. So you have to make a choice is Burks talented enough to be a star? If so you live with the growing pains. If he isn't then you made a mistake. Burks isn't going to be a very good role player.

your flagrant use of the term 'retarded' aside, we seem to agree on many things qman.

1) between burks and carroll there is little comparison. burks has the greater skill set. my point was that carroll found a way to get minutes and to me it indicates that corbin will give minutes to players who earn them and keep giving that consistent effort.
2) burks: yes, more consistency at both ends required (might come with some extra playing time, might not). terrific finisher, pretty good quicks and handles when penetrating. i'd also add that a few of our guys need to give more consistent effort if we want to reach our potential as a playing group this season.

not sure if i'm getting the premise of your final comments though. i don't necessarily think it's superstar or bust for alec. he could well become a role player in the way you described earlier, as a scorer off the bench.

going on a lot of these responses it's possible that i'm not communicating my views on burks very well. i'm far from a hater. i would love to see him tear it up, the same way i once wanted to see a young kirk snyder, deshawn stevenson, morris almond etc become a long-term solution at SG for us. unfortunately i'm not in a position to influence his playing time or career trajectory so i don't see any point in blowing up online about those running the team and the organisation. i'm just trying to provide a little balance to the ongoing mass hysteria re: a gifted second year guard of indeterminate potential.