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  1. #31
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJAS View Post
    I've listened to the apologists on here talk about our offense without Apathetic Jefferson, and he has played brilliantly offensively in just enough games to accept the fool's gold. He defensive rebounds very well, he is a superstar teammate, and he is an ideal player to have on the team with respect to his conduct off the court. However, he is not even an efficient offensive player, and you will never (here me), never, even make the sixth seed with Jefferson as your main offensive player. You will also never make it out of the first round, ever, when he plays more than 30 minutes a game. His offensive is hit or miss, but his defense is disgraceful. He has no defensive pride and leads by example with his apathetic defensive play, letting guys drive right down the middle for easy baskets, just watching. The poisonous effect of this mindset is the most dangerous aspect of his play. You have to hold people accountable, and when your main players are the biggest offenders, you're in a bad spot. Not to put all of the blame on Al since I want Foye gone yesterday and possibly Mo as well. The both of them combined are, in the words of Kevin Pelton, "a historically bad rebounding backcourt."

    By keeping Al you hamper any growth that the young bigs might have, and it's not a matter of tanking, but there will be some growing pains, and the offense cannot run through them necessarily, although Kanter may turn out to be a very good offensive player and has held his own particularly after, get this, he started. When Ty's chewing his ass out for every little thing he does, but then turns the other cheek when the Vets look like the Washington Generals on defense, it's bound to mess with you a bit. In short, I am for trading A.J. this season, even though I like the guy a lot.

    As stated above, you also have to consider how the younglings are going to think about the Jazz when contracts come around. If these guys are the future, they need to start acting like it. I can't take another Millsap, AJ frontcourt, because I'm sick of the conservative middling tendencies of the Jazz brass.
    Excellent job setting up your own straw man and burning it down. You should claim victory over these imaginary Jefferson Apologists.
    No Mediocrity

  2. #32
    Senior Member Purch's Avatar
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    Interesting. Another question, if there's no Millsap and Al to take minutes away from Favors and Kanter, do you still think this team needs a different coach to maximize their talents?

    On a side note ( I was saying halfway though last season to see Jeff and Sap traded so Favors and Kanter can start).

  3. #33
    Moderator Revolution 9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoked View Post
    A stat that can't be ignored now that Trade Season is fully underway: Utah ranks No. 23 in defensive efficiency and allows 106 points per 100 possessions when vets Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap anchor the frontcourt. When it's anchored by Derrick Favors and Enes Kanter?Just 95.3 points.

    From ESPN Power Rankings.
    Does Corbin ignore the stats, or just want to outscore other teams?
    "Hayward can be a #1?"......"Maybe if he goes down to Fort Wayne...DLeague" -ESPN

  4. #34
    Senior Member JJAS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    Excellent job setting up your own straw man and burning it down. You should claim victory over these imaginary Jefferson Apologists.
    What's that? I couldn't hear you with all of that straw in your mouth.

  5. #35
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJAS View Post
    What's that? I couldn't hear you with all of that straw in your mouth.
    Us JFers chase breakfast habaneros with goldschlager and Tabasco sauce. What's a little burning straw?

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    Your contention that the offense wouldn't miss AJ would be stronger if placed on its own platform.
    No Mediocrity

  6. #36
    Senior Member orangello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purch View Post
    Interesting. Another question, if there's no Millsap and Al to take minutes away from Favors and Kanter, do you still think this team needs a different coach to maximize their talents?

    On a side note ( I was saying halfway though last season to see Jeff and Sap traded so Favors and Kanter can start).
    This is still debatable. I want to say that Corbin will adjust the system for the personnel but I'm starting to think that is not going to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    So I was very mad about the game, but I wasn't going to vent here, because you guys all feel the same way. However, Ty's postgame interview got my blood boiling. On why he let Trey and Gordon play while having bad games, "You gotta let them battle through it because that's what you gotta do." Really are you kidding me. You have to balls to say that when you pulled Alec after 16 minutes against LAC and Kanter got 19 minutes toinght?

  7. #37
    Senior Member JJAS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    Us JFers chase breakfast habaneros with goldschlager and Tabasco sauce. What's a little burning straw?

    Your contention that the offense wouldn't miss AJ would be stronger if placed on its own platform.
    Truth is, many of us waffle on Al because of his occasionally wonderful offensive displays. My point is not that the offense would instantly get better but that overall we would be better off. The Jazz have had a tendency to let contracts expire and let the player walk, which I don't want them to do this year. Our young bigs are far from perfect, and there would be some painful games (but there are those already). Since Corbin is too craven to pull his vet players from the game for time and time again not even competing on the defensive end, I want A.J. to bring us at least something back. I'm done with my waffling.
    Last edited by JJAS; 12-17-2012 at 06:27 PM.

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  9. #38
    Senior Member Lattimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJAS View Post
    Truth is, many of us waffle on Al because of his occasionally wonderful offensive displays. My point is not that the offensive would instantly get better but that overall we would be better off. The Jazz have had a tendency to let contracts expire and let the player walk, which I don't want them to do this year. Our young bigs are far from perfect, and there would be some painful games (but there are those already). Since Corbin is too craven to pull his vet players from the game for time and time again not even competing on the defensive end, I want A.J. to bring us at least something back. I'm done with my waffling.
    I don't think the jazz will make any moves. They will let them expire.

    If they re-sign Al i will be taking a break from the Jazz until his contract expires. I hope this doesn't happen.

  10. #39
    Senior Member Thee jazz fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durrrr View Post
    I don't think the jazz will make any moves. They will let them expire.

    If they re-sign Al i will be taking a break from the Jazz until his contract expires. I hope this doesn't happen.
    I have no problem with this. Just means we have extra money to fill whatever we need at that time.

  11. #40
    Senior Member pickledXgrandma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaticWolf View Post
    Sure, it'd be better.

    And our offensive production would fall off a cliff.
    You started posting more recently and you need to stop. Please fall back into obscurity.

  12. #41
    Senior Member Lattimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thee jazz fan View Post
    I have no problem with this. Just means we have extra money to fill whatever we need at that time.
    What a wasted season this is.

  13. #42
    Moderator Stoked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pickledXgrandma View Post
    You started posting more recently and you need to stop. Please fall back into obscurity.
    Why because some jackass Internet tough guy said so?

    You are more than welcomed here by some Lunatic. Please continue to post.
    #BelieveInLindsey

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoked View Post
    Why because some jackass Internet tough guy said so?

    You are more than welcomed here by some Lunatic. Please continue to post.
    Sorry, but he is right. I repped him.

  15. #44
    Senior Member LunaticWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJAS View Post
    The Jazz have had a tendency to let contracts expire and let the player walk, which I don't want them to do this year.
    What are you basing that on?
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

  16. #45
    Senior Member LunaticWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoked View Post
    Yes they do and to sugest otherwise is foolish. They simply come to a different conclussion than you. Heaven forbid.
    No, they blatantly ignore what consequences would come of their demands. They dismiss these as nothing when they are required of running a home business, let alone an NBA team.
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

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