The potential of our Favors-Kanter frontcourt? A couple of questions

[Stoked]

I find it funny that people say we would have such a hard time scoring without al in the post and that favors and kanter cant possibly be as effective.

Uh....6-1 record without al? suck on that for a while.... remember the toronto game when we scored 133 pts in regulation? hello.

Kanter and favors would be just fine against crappy frontcourts and struggle against really good frontcourts for the most part.... just like Al and sap.

So if we know what Al and Sap are and we have not seen the limits of what Favors and Kanter will be (besides already being much better defensively) then we not throw them out there more?

If they will struggle against the same frontcourts that stiffle Al and Sap what's the downside?

[Stoked]

I agree that the youngsters need more time to be appreciated as a natural starter, but that time should not be spent in the bench more than on the court with major minutes. see the problem is, these guys are the jazz future and they have come to a point that they won't increase their contribution level in keeping on playing bench minutes. now is the time to give them the real experience, when taking some serious risks for about 2 seasons but harvesting some rich crops in the end. this should be solved within the season.

I agree but there is no reason Favors and Kanter cannot have over 20 minutes a game other than Corbin. To finish one game have Favors and Sap. For the next Big Al and Kanter. Then Kanter and Sap and Favors and Big Al. You can still get there by mixing it up.

[orangello]

If they will struggle against the same frontcourts that stiffle Al and Sap what's the downside?

There is none. At this point it is pure ego that is keeping this up. The egobof Corbin, Al, Sap and the Jazz as an organization.

I will say this, Millsap has been playing much better on both sides of the ball.

[Stoked]

There is none. At this point it is pure ego that is keeping this up. The egobof Corbin, Al, Sap and the Jazz as an organization.

I will say this, Millsap has been playing much better on both sides of the ball.

True and he is the third bigman that I would love to keep. Sap meshes with Favors and Kanter better than Big Al. Sap can provide that mid range game and some hustle while Favors/Kanter do the dirty work down low. Big Al is in the same space as Kanter.Favors trying to do the same thing.

[fishonjazz]

What are the 7 teams the Jazz played during that time? Where were the games?

The young guys need more time. I would be willing to see a more mixed role. It does not have to be give the vets all the time or give the young guys all the time. Their is a meddle ground where you go for the wins with vets and give the young guys that irreplaceable experience.

How does it matter who we played or where.... are you trying to say that the jazz only play tough opponents on the road when Al is in?
The record is what it is..... if we played toronto 7 games in a row WITH Al in the lineup we would probably lose 1 or 2.
Fact is without him we are 6-1 which is a good record even if we played the 7 worst teams in the league all at home. (which was not the case)..... either way 6-1 is a good record, or do you disagree.

[fishonjazz]

So if we know what Al and Sap are and we have not seen the limits of what Favors and Kanter will be (besides already being much better defensively) then we not throw them out there more?

If they will struggle against the same frontcourts that stiffle Al and Sap what's the downside?

Exactly... there really is no downside that i can see.... we win about the same amount of games (or more if you look at our record without al) and we get more entertaining basketball with more develop/hope/excitement for the future

[Stoked]

How does it matter who we played or where.... are you trying to say that the jazz only play tough opponents on the road when Al is in?
The record is what it is..... if we played toronto 7 games in a row WITH Al in the lineup we would probably lose 1 or 2.
Fact is without him we are 6-1 which is a good record even if we played the 7 worst teams in the league all at home. (which was not the case)..... either way 6-1 is a good record, or do you disagree.

I never said it mattered. I just wanted to know.

[fishonjazz]

I never said it mattered. I just wanted to know.

Oh is see..... it was said who they played in another thread and it was something like 1 really good team, 3 average teams, 1 decent team, and 2 really bad teams..... something like that, basically pretty similar to just about any 7 game sample you can take out of any season.

Edit: the 1 loss was in double overtime and we lost because of a 30 foot 3 pointer by calderon to beat a shot clock buzzer at the end of the game.
So we are 1 lucky 3 point shot away from being 7-0 without AL.

[Stoked]

Oh is see..... it was said who they played in another thread and it was something like 1 really good team, 3 average teams, 1 decent team, and 2 really bad teams..... something like that, basically pretty similar to just about any 7 game sample you can take out of any season.

Edit: the 1 loss was in double overtime and we lost because of a 30 foot 3 pointer by calderon to beat a shot clock buzzer at the end of the game.
So we are 1 lucky 3 point shot away from being 7-0 without AL.

So it was a mixed bag. Nice to see them go against top notch teams and pull it out. The more I see of Favors and Kanter together to more I like it. Same with Carrol.

[fishonjazz]

So it was a mixed bag. Nice to see them go against top notch teams and pull it out. The more I see of Favors and Kanter together to more I like it. Same with Carrol.

I have been happier with carroll than anyone else on the team this season... and i was a big time carroll hater. I thought he shouldn't even be on the team and now i think he should start! (shows how much i know )

[Purch]

Lol so no ones gonna reference my questions after the first page =(

[Qman]

Wrong topic.

[addictionary]

I am for capable, responsible citizens being armed. However, it is really difficult to determine who is responsible and capable. (Note: I am very responsible and capable. All of the rest of your are questionable. )

It probably is reasonable to have some tighter checks guns to control who has them. IMO violent convicts and the seriously mentally ill should not have them. It probably is reasonable to force gun owners to have a way to lock them up.

By removing all guns from society you probably could reduce the rate of murders. But would you increase the assaults, rapes, etc.? A gun is an equalizer between petite 90 pound woman and 350 pound ex-NFL lineman.

This isn't a simple choice.

IMO if someone is really hellbent on creating a massacre, there are many ways to do so. Firebombing, pipe-bomb etc. are fairly easy to make. Or for that matter a knife or sword is a very deadly weapon. Or a bow or crossbow for that matter.

check the thread mister.

[franklin]

Truth is, many of us waffle on Al because of his occasionally wonderful offensive displays. My point is not that the offense would instantly get better but that overall we would be better off. The Jazz have had a tendency to let contracts expire and let the player walk, which I don't want them to do this year. Our young bigs are far from perfect, and there would be some painful games (but there are those already). Since Corbin is too craven to pull his vet players from the game for time and time again not even competing on the defensive end, I want A.J. to bring us at least something back. I'm done with my waffling.

Welcome to TANKVILLE!, brother.

"Kiss Kiss Bang Bang
Load em up and let's go riding through the TANKlands
This is the beginning but it's feelin like the last stand
That's why we lighting up the tires and the gas cans
Just cuz' its about to go down, down down down down down
It's goin down down down down down"

[Thee jazz fan]

Actually, the statement was that Paul was a much better defender than Boozer, and that "addition by subtraction" would make the team so much better. Sounds kinda familiar don'it?

Well, how'd that turn out? Sub 500 team by February, a pissed off coach, and star played that had to be traded.

Boozer's defense was a reason we were not a championship team 07-10, but it was not the reason, and simply dumping him in favor of Paul would not have made (and didn't) make us a better team.

Unless you are Lamar Odom with a 2.1 PER or a complete headcase like Stephon Marbury, addition by subtraction does not exist.

Your argument is logical, but flawed, yes Boozer has a lot of the same defensive flaws that Al has, but Boozers offensive game meshed perfectly with D-Will's game, which made for a highly efficient offense that led to lots of layups and high % shots.

So now we switch Boozer with the undersized Millsap and bring in Al, and what do we have? We have a guy like Millsap who is skilled, but undersized and wears down, and is better suited to play off the bench, but Ty refuses to play him off the bench. Because of this both his offense and defense suffers. His defense has been god awful since he became a starter.

As for Al it's simple good low post scorer, but is as inefficient an offensive player as there is in the league. From time to time, when he's hitting his shot consistently, this is a very good team, but when he's not it's like the bad news bears before they start winning. He stops ball movement, the jazz are more iso, and one on one and other players strengths are not used properly because all we do is throw the ball into Al and watch him go 1 on 2 most the time. The best example of this is the Memphis game. In the first half Al was on fire, and couldn't be stoped. He played with in the context of the offense allowing others to play well. The result was having a big halftime lead, but in the second half Al reverted back to the old Al, and end up scoring a grand total of 10 points. And end up losing by double digits.

Let me be a medium between both arguments. Why not trade Al now,send Millsap to the bench, let Favers and Kanter start, and with Al gone bring Hayward back into the starting lineup, so we can let Foye be the long range shooter off the bench that we need.

Right now we are an offense that throws the ball into Al and watching him do his thing. With Al gone, the ball will move more, helping the jazz to better utilize the skills of others instead of relying on Al to to go 2 on 1. Millsap is better because he's playing against second unit guys. Foye is not as bad a defensive liability coming off the bench, and him, Marvin Hayward, and Carroll get wide open shots due to better ball movement. With Al gone Haward is able to move back to the starting lineup and get his touches with Al gone. This allows him a chance to progress faster as well as Favors and Kanter. So as I said in an earlier post.... Addition by subtraction.

Wow that was longer then I thought it would be.

Lol so no ones gonna reference my questions after the first page =(

there ya go.