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  1. #31
    Senior Member orangello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    You realize KOC turned down Sam Presti's offer for James Harden, right? What do you think Presti asked for? Why did KOC decline if Favors and Kanter are not the future of the team?

    Bottom line is the Jazz are not looking to make a serious run with Jefferson and Millsap, and are trying to bring Favors and Kanter along at a comfortable level while attempting to get something back for their two expiring bigs. CoTy has to play winning ball & cannot destroy the market value of these two by benching them. Not only would that destroy the locker room and winning culture, but it would send a message to the market that these guys can be had easier than Raja Bell.

    It's a delicate situation that O'Connor and Corbin are handling beautifully. One way or another, next season will look much different.
    Solid post. The best rebuttal I have heard from anyone on this issue. Good work Frank.
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    So I was very mad about the game, but I wasn't going to vent here, because you guys all feel the same way. However, Ty's postgame interview got my blood boiling. On why he let Trey and Gordon play while having bad games, "You gotta let them battle through it because that's what you gotta do." Really are you kidding me. You have to balls to say that when you pulled Alec after 16 minutes against LAC and Kanter got 19 minutes toinght?

  2. #32
    Senior Member Lattimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    You poor thang.

    CoTy & KOC have a plan that's coming along nicely.
    What value does an expiring big like Sap or Al have?

    What trades make sense. Can you come up with a few scenarios that make sense for the other team and our team?

    I don't see how either of them have any value. The Jazz waited to long and teams will just wait in the offseason instead of giving up draft picks or young players for them.

    The only teams that might want Al or Paul are teams over the cap and those teams probably have crap to offer us.

    I'm really curious if you have some trades in mind. I'd like to see them.

  3. #33
    Senior Member orangello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangello View Post
    Solid post. The best rebuttal I have heard from anyone on this issue. Good work Frank.
    Maybe rebuttal isn't the right word. The right word is explanation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    So I was very mad about the game, but I wasn't going to vent here, because you guys all feel the same way. However, Ty's postgame interview got my blood boiling. On why he let Trey and Gordon play while having bad games, "You gotta let them battle through it because that's what you gotta do." Really are you kidding me. You have to balls to say that when you pulled Alec after 16 minutes against LAC and Kanter got 19 minutes toinght?

  4. #34
    Senior Member Lattimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    You realize KOC turned down Sam Presti's offer for James Harden, right? What do you think Presti asked for? Why did KOC decline if Favors and Kanter are not the future of the team?

    Bottom line is the Jazz are not looking to make a serious run with Jefferson and Millsap, and are trying to bring Favors and Kanter along at a comfortable level while attempting to get something back for their two expiring bigs. CoTy has to play winning ball & cannot destroy the market value of these two by benching them. Not only would that destroy the locker room and winning culture, but it would send a message to the market that these guys can be had easier than Raja Bell.

    It's a delicate situation that O'Connor and Corbin are handling beautifully. One way or another, next season will look much different.
    Was this already discussed somewhere (details on what Presti wanted) and Jazz declining? Can you link it?

  5. #35
    Moderator Revolution 9's Avatar
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    KOC has a great plan, but it's too bad Corbin isn't following it...
    "Hayward can be a #1?"......"Maybe if he goes down to Fort Wayne...DLeague" -ESPN

  6. #36
    Senior Member Purch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durrrr View Post
    What value does an expiring big like Sap or Al have?

    What trades make sense. Can you come up with a few scenarios that make sense for the other team and our team?

    I don't see how either of them have any value. The Jazz waited to long and teams will just wait in the offseason instead of giving up draft picks or young players for them.

    The only teams that might want Al or Paul are teams over the cap and those teams probably have crap to offer us.

    I'm really curious if you have some trades in mind. I'd like to see them.
    They absolutely have value do you know how many teams are looking for bigs who can score, whether it be in the starting lineup or off the bench? Especially Eastern conference teams, cause most of them are very weak in their frontcourts.

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  8. #37
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaticWolf View Post
    Well, we better get Beasley, Flynn, Jennings, Tyreke, Jianlian, Lopez. With all those minutes those guys played, they are stars!

    It doesn't work that way. Favors was one of the rawest offensive players to enter the NBA in the last 5 or so years.
    Enes Kanter didn't play a single game in college.
    Alec Burks was the scoring leader for a sub-par school, and came in with questionable range and defense.
    Gordon Hayward, good at everything, master of nothing.

    Are those things you said about LeBron, CP3, Durant, Blake, or any other star coming into the league?

    Stars don't have question marks.
    Even kobe was thought to be too young and cocky (chucker). durant, too skinny.... blake could only dunk and thats it.
    All of thier coaches gave them major minutes anyway.
    Kevin love had question marks, paul pierce did too, derrick rose and westbrook supposedly couldn't shoot good enough.
    Alot of stars had question marks, but all of thier coaches decided to give them major minutes anyway.

  9. #38
    Moderator Revolution 9's Avatar
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    Yes, Favors was raw when he came out of college a few years ago. It's great that he's come so far. His FT shooting has even improved.
    He attacks the rim, draws fouls, and is starting to score on low post moves. The fact is he scores points, and puts up good stats in limited minutes.
    It's time to expand those opportunities.

    Lunatic and his band of stay the course/question nothing are trying to say we are comparing him to Lebron, Durant, etc. Favors is not in their league.
    I think most people are saying we are better with him on the floor, and has a higher ceiling than Sap/Big Al.
    "Hayward can be a #1?"......"Maybe if he goes down to Fort Wayne...DLeague" -ESPN

  10. #39
    Senior Member LunaticWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution 9 View Post
    Yes, Favors was raw when he came out of college a few years ago. It's great that he's come so far. His FT shooting has even improved.
    He attacks the rim, draws fouls, and is starting to score on low post moves. The fact is he scores points, and puts up good stats in limited minutes.
    It's time to expand those opportunities.

    Lunatic and his band of stay the course/question nothing are trying to say we are comparing him to Lebron, Durant, etc. Favors is not in their league.
    I think most people are saying we are better with him on the floor, and has a higher ceiling than Sap/Big Al.
    No. I'm in the stay patient, this will all work it self out by the trade deadline, quit bitching because its annoying group.
    You can also pen me in on the don't blow everything up because **** the team chemistry, burn bridges, and ruin our players trust in the coach petition.
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

  11. #40
    Senior Member Purch's Avatar
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    I think it's common knowledge that Favors has a higher ceiling than Millsap, and that Kanter has a higher ceiling than Jefferson. No need to whine about getting rid of them after every game though. By the end of the season neither will be here.

  12. #41
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution 9 View Post
    Yes, Favors was raw when he came out of college a few years ago. It's great that he's come so far. His FT shooting has even improved.
    He attacks the rim, draws fouls, and is starting to score on low post moves. The fact is he scores points, and puts up good stats in limited minutes.
    It's time to expand those opportunities.

    Lunatic and his band of stay the course/question nothing are trying to say we are comparing him to Lebron, Durant, etc. Favors is not in their league.
    I think most people are saying we are better with him on the floor, and has a higher ceiling than Sap/Big Al.
    So letting players expire isn't an option since your favorite players absolutely must play 35mpg immediately. Gotcha. Let's bring in someone else's ****ty contract so you can buy a foam finger.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    You realize KOC turned down Sam Presti's offer for James Harden, right? What do you think Presti asked for? Why did KOC decline if Favors and Kanter are not the future of the team?

    Bottom line is the Jazz are not looking to make a serious run with Jefferson and Millsap, and are trying to bring Favors and Kanter along at a comfortable level while attempting to get something back for their two expiring bigs. CoTy has to play winning ball & cannot destroy the market value of these two by benching them. Not only would that destroy the locker room and winning culture, but it would send a message to the market that these guys can be had easier than Raja Bell.

    It's a delicate situation that O'Connor and Corbin are handling beautifully. One way or another, next season will look much different.
    in other words, Frank the Tank is ALL IN on the bet that one (and probably both) of Al and Paul will be dealt by the deadline.

  14. #43
    Senior Member franklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durrrr View Post
    What trades make sense. Can you come up with a few scenarios that make sense for the other team and our team?
    Every GM in the league is looking at KOC's situation and nothing has materialized yet (that we know of). Everyone seems to know it will be tough to get a deal done. The Jazz can't just give Jefferson away without a legitimate reason why it's good for the organization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Durrrr View Post
    Was this already discussed somewhere (details on what Presti wanted) and Jazz declining? Can you link it?
    I couldn't find it earlier googling about 20 minutes for the source. It came out of a KOC interview IIRC.

    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    in other words, Frank the Tank is ALL IN on the bet that one (and probably both) of Al and Paul will be dealt by the deadline.
    I wish it were that easy. I'm all in on both won't be re-signed. Doing that is saying see ya to a whole bunch of fans.

  15. #44
    Senior Member Lattimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    Every GM in the league is looking at KOC's situation and nothing has materialized yet (that we know of). Everyone seems to know it will be tough to get a deal done. The Jazz can't just give Jefferson away without a legitimate reason why it's good for the organization.



    I couldn't find it earlier googling about 20 minutes for the source. It came out of a KOC interview IIRC.



    I wish it were that easy. I'm all in on both won't be re-signed. Doing that is saying see ya to a whole bunch of fans.
    It's tough to get a deal done because teams aren't willing to give up assets to acquire Al or Paul when they could just get them in FA without giving up picks or other assets.

    Not every team is Billy King level of stupid and will give up a player or pick for a player they could acquire via FA. In fact that trade is widely regarded as the worst trade of our time.

    So this argument that we need to "keep their trade value up" is pure garbage. They don't have value.

    They will just expire and go to another team the way Boozer, David West, Korver, etc.

    I'm asking you for examples of where it makes sense for a team to do this.

    So in short, you agree it is difficult to get a deal done. In the end what a wasted a** season this was stifling the growth of our top 3 picks so we could watch players that wont be on this team next year get the majority of minutes all for a 1st round sweep at best.

  16. #45
    Senior Member NUMBERICA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    You poor thang.

    CoTy & KOC have a plan that's coming along nicely.
    Coming along nicely? Having completely stalled from one year ago is "coming along nicely"?
    #loseeveryremaininggame

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