View Poll Results: Which player would you rather have next summer?

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  • Mo Williams

    9 40.91%
  • Jose Calderon

    13 59.09%
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  1. #16
    Senior Member Weezur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    Really? I'll take a biff on this, but isn't that a knock? What's with not scoring much for a guy with good 3 %?

    Literally any team in the league can have him today. Why no takers?
    Defense.
    He's an amazing shooter but doesn't look to shoot too often...I think he's more concerned about setting up a play.
    Good rebounder for his position too (got a triple double this year when Lowry was out)

    Also, Calderon is 31. So he's not future point gaurd material, but at least he's decent starting PG material.

  2. #17
    Senior Member Brown Notes's Avatar
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    Not good D and old. Kind of like Tinsley, who is way worse and everybody loves.
    "I'm a moron for thinking the Browns could even sniff 10 wins in a division where the other three teams (two of whom almost always make the playoffs) made the post-season last year. Gyp Rosetti's thee God of football knowledge." - Brown Notes

  3. #18
    Senior Member Twin Towers's Avatar
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    The way I look at it is
    Mo Williams defense isn't good. He has been actually really bad defending his man this year.
    Is Calderon better at defense than Mo Williams. Probably not.

    I see Mo Williams hurting the development of Kanter & Favors more than anything.

    I would rather have a guy who can set up his teammates and be a dependable PG rather than Mo Williams who thinks he should shoot more than anyone on the team.

    Is Calderon perfect no. But he would complement our current players well and he can be had for probably 5 million a year for 3-4 years.
    "The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team." - John Wooden

  4. #19
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twin Towers View Post
    The way I look at it is
    Mo Williams defense isn't good. He has been actually really bad defending his man this year.
    Is Calderon better at defense than Mo Williams. Probably not.

    I see Mo Williams hurting the development of Kanter & Favors more than anything.

    I would rather have a guy who can set up his teammates and be a dependable PG rather than Mo Williams who thinks he should shoot more than anyone on the team.

    Is Calderon perfect no. But he would complement our current players well and he can be had for probably 5 million a year for 3-4 years.
    I originally voted for mo, but reading through this thread and some other posters opinions (such as this one), i would like to change my vote for calderon.

  5. #20
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Notes View Post
    Not good D and old. Kind of like Tinsley, who is way worse and everybody loves.
    So, what could be different about Tinsley that would bust your analogy?
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  6. #21
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    If Toronto moves Bargs, then we might be able to trade them Al for Jose. I'd support this all day.
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  7. #22
    Senior Member infection's Avatar
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    The most important thing a PG can do is distribute. The second most important thing they can do, almost as important as passing, is having the ability to shoot from the outside. Every decent PG we've ever had fit these two criteria (Stockton, Williams, Crotty, Eisley to a much lesser extent [not as much passing]). We've picked up a number of guys that are proficient passers but not shooters and it hasn't been all that great (Mark Jackson, Brevin Knight, Earl Watson, Jacque Vaughn), then we pick up a few guys that few guys that do neither (Price, Hart), then there are a couple that are more difficult to evaluate due to limited time (Arroyo, Lopez, Mo Williams to an extent).

    I think Calderon is a no brainer. Maybe he can't play defense, but if he can distribute and then just stand there and simply be a threat to hit from the outside.

  8. #23
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infection View Post
    The most important thing a PG can do is distribute. The second most important thing they can do, almost as important as passing, is having the ability to shoot from the outside. Every decent PG we've ever had fit these two criteria (Stockton, Williams, Crotty, Eisley to a much lesser extent [not as much passing]). We've picked up a number of guys that are proficient passers but not shooters and it hasn't been all that great (Mark Jackson, Brevin Knight, Earl Watson, Jacque Vaughn), then we pick up a few guys that few guys that do neither (Price, Hart), then there are a couple that are more difficult to evaluate due to limited time (Arroyo, Lopez, Mo Williams to an extent).

    I think Calderon is a no brainer. Maybe he can't play defense, but if he can distribute and then just stand there and simply be a threat to hit from the outside.
    the questions are these:

    1. what would the jazz give up this year to acquire him?
    2. what would it take to get him to SLC as a free agent?

    As per 1: IMO, the realistic list is limited to our own expiring contracts. Essentially, the teams agree to swap dudes that probably won't be on their teams next year. Millsap is more valuable and productive than Calderon, so that deal is off the table; TOR isn't giving more than Calderon to acquire Millsap because they most likely won't be able to retain him. As I've already said, I'd swap him and Al immediately; but the only way that goes down is if TOR moves Bargs or another big man, because they aren't in need at the moment.

    As per 2: Do the jazz have to give an extra year? Do we have to pay too much? I'd absolutely hate a 4-year deal. I'd hate a 3-year deal for the wrong price. Maybe he comes here for the right price at two years since he sees an opportunity to start for a competitive team, but that is a hard bargain.

    My only interest is an Al swap. That'll at least give him an audition before we were to negotiate our own contract.
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  9. #24
    Senior Member infection's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    the questions are these:

    1. what would the jazz give up this year to acquire him?
    2. what would it take to get him to SLC as a free agent?

    As per 1: IMO, the realistic list is limited to our own expiring contracts. Essentially, the teams agree to swap dudes that probably won't be on their teams next year. Millsap is more valuable and productive than Calderon, so that deal is off the table; TOR isn't giving more than Calderon to acquire Millsap because they most likely won't be able to retain him. As I've already said, I'd swap him and Al immediately; but the only way that goes down is if TOR moves Bargs or another big man, because they aren't in need at the moment.

    As per 2: Do the jazz have to give an extra year? Do we have to pay too much? I'd absolutely hate a 4-year deal. I'd hate a 3-year deal for the wrong price. Maybe he comes here for the right price at two years since he sees an opportunity to start for a competitive team, but that is a hard bargain.

    My only interest is an Al swap. That'll at least give him an audition before we were to negotiate our own contract.
    Don't really know or care. I'd just like to move Al to begin moving forward as it would free us up this year and force us not to resign.

  10. #25
    Senior Member fishonjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    the questions are these:

    1. what would the jazz give up this year to acquire him?
    2. what would it take to get him to SLC as a free agent?

    As per 1: IMO, the realistic list is limited to our own expiring contracts. Essentially, the teams agree to swap dudes that probably won't be on their teams next year. Millsap is more valuable and productive than Calderon, so that deal is off the table; TOR isn't giving more than Calderon to acquire Millsap because they most likely won't be able to retain him. As I've already said, I'd swap him and Al immediately; but the only way that goes down is if TOR moves Bargs or another big man, because they aren't in need at the moment.

    As per 2: Do the jazz have to give an extra year? Do we have to pay too much? I'd absolutely hate a 4-year deal. I'd hate a 3-year deal for the wrong price. Maybe he comes here for the right price at two years since he sees an opportunity to start for a competitive team, but that is a hard bargain.

    My only interest is an Al swap. That'll at least give him an audition before we were to negotiate our own contract.
    Great post.
    I would add that there is already a need for toronto at the 4/5 position even if they keep bargnani.... Jonas is injured and not playing much anyways and jefferson is an upgrade (debateable) for toronto over davis, johnson, jonas, or gray and possibly even bargnani.

    However if that trade happened then the raptors would be starting john lucas III. (since lowry is hurt) Not sure they would want to do that.
    Maybe we have to throw in watson or tinsley too.

  11. #26
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    Throw Watson in as player coach and they become a 10 win better team overnight.

  12.  

     

  13. #27
    In pursuit of #9 PKM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    Throw Watson in as player coach and they become a 10 win better team overnight.
    Haha, enjoyed it!
    #dumptruckin

  14. #28
    Senior Member NUMBERICA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    Really? I'll take a biff on this, but isn't that a knock? What's with not scoring much for a guy with good 3 %?

    Literally any team in the league can have him today. Why no takers?
    You're assuming a lot. The Raptors have been trying to find a player to replace him for years (probably as step one in exploring an actual trade attempt) and regardless of who they try to bring in, Calderon always rises to the top. You can call it a coincidence that the Raptors suddenly look competent with Lowry out and Calderon having a sort of explosion, but I wouldn't.

    The guy is a good player. Offensively, the closest thing to prototypical PG in the league despite his poor D.
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  15. #29
    Senior Member NUMBERICA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    So, what could be different about Tinsley that would bust your analogy?
    Tinsley can't shoot and is one of the worst defensive players in the league (way worse than Calderon). And quite a bit older. And can't impact the game with any kind of consistency (he'll look great [as great as he can, anyway] one night, then be invisible the next. This might have to do with his age and that his battery is poor).
    Quote Originally Posted by Eenie-Meenie View Post
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  16. #30
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    So you're saying it was a broken comparison right from the get-go?

    Let's not even start the conversation about what it takes/took to acquire both players.

    Some brown stuff all over this.
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