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  1. #16
    Senior Member bjunior's Avatar
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    Mark Jackson found a way to develop youngsters and to win.

    As for us, we still don't know who is Kanter, who is Favors, Burks got playing time just because someone was injured and Hayward is not a starter anymore.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM View Post
    Problem is basketball is played on a court and isn't subject to the alternative notions you are loosely suggesting. It's basketball. Also (and this one is a serious question), can one be guilty of being selective when the only reality is the one before us .. meaning there is no other data to choose from (directly, that is)?
    I'm not sure to which "alternative notions" you are referring. I agree it's basketball, whether it's being played by the Warriors, Bobcats, Raptors, TrailBlazers, or Pistons. While I don't claim to follow any of those teams closely, my perception has been that they have all been generally following the suggestions of Hotttnickkk for a number of years. So, when you say there is no other data to choose from, I'm curious why you can't choose from data that includes such teams.
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  3. #18
    Senior Member The Thriller's Avatar
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    If Ty Corbin coached the Warriors guys like Curry and Thompson would be riding the pine in favor or guys like Richard Jefferson.

    If Corbin coached the Blazers no one outside of the Big Sky would know who Damian Lillard was.

    It's truly ridiculous that guys like Kanter and Favors are struggling to even get 20 mins while guys like Burks are basically receiving zero. I truly don't know of any other coach in the league who would have simply benched Burks, barely play Kanter, and play Favors only 20 mins. For most teams Favors would be 35+ mins, starter, and huge contributor. Kanter would be a 30+ min guy. And Burks would start.

    It's sooooo weird what we're doing with 3 lotto picks, in particular, the 2 bigs who were top 3 picks. So weird.
    Corbin sucks.

  4. #19
    In pursuit of #9 PKM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
    I'm not sure to which "alternative notions" you are referring. I agree it's basketball, whether it's being played by the Warriors, Bobcats, Raptors, TrailBlazers, or Pistons. While I don't claim to follow any of those teams closely, my perception has been that they have all been generally following the suggestions of Hotttnickkk for a number of years. So, when you say there is no other data to choose from, I'm curious why you can't choose from data that includes such teams.
    I knew what you meant, OB. I just wanted to mess with you and point out that these types of things can hardly be formula-applied.
    E.J. Wells vs. NAOS

    The confusion...

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    Pre-season mock (7/13/13) - page 111

  5. #20
    Senior Member utahjazz107's Avatar
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    Jazz model right now should be trading Fat Al + Millsap + GSW Pick for a young PG like Holiday or Rondo and then follow the GSW model and get Shabazz

  6. #21
    In pursuit of #9 PKM's Avatar
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    Can't tank well enough for 'Bazz. I'll take Rondo though.
    E.J. Wells vs. NAOS

    The confusion...

    ---
    Pre-season mock (7/13/13) - page 111

  7. #22
    Senior Member JAZZGASM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Thriller View Post
    If Ty Corbin coached the Warriors guys like Curry and Thompson would be riding the pine in favor or guys like Richard Jefferson.

    If Corbin coached the Blazers no one outside of the Big Sky would know who Damian Lillard was.

    It's truly ridiculous that guys like Kanter and Favors are struggling to even get 20 mins while guys like Burks are basically receiving zero. I truly don't know of any other coach in the league who would have simply benched Burks, barely play Kanter, and play Favors only 20 mins. For most teams Favors would be 35+ mins, starter, and huge contributor. Kanter would be a 30+ min guy. And Burks would start.

    It's sooooo weird what we're doing with 3 lotto picks, in particular, the 2 bigs who were top 3 picks. So weird.
    This is exactly right. The more minutes you play Kanter, Burks and Favors, the more it will pay in dividends for this season and future seasons. If Big Al and Sap were getting us a lot more wins, then I could see how it would be hard to give these guys a lot of minutes. But that is not happening---and it is obvious our young guys have more talent. We are losing badly and it seems we play better and come back with our young guys in the game.

    Treating them like this will ruin their confidence and upside.

  8. #23
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    It is a no-brainer to play the young guys because they are the future of the franchise if they are as good as we hope they are. Playing guys like Foye is just bad business because no one wants to come to the arena to watch Randy Foye, a guy who most likely won't be here next year. I would be trade both AJ and Millsap along with Foye or Marvin Williams to get a top 5 pick.

    My target would be Washington/Charlotte/Kings because they are in need of a lot of veteran talent and their owners do not want to be in the lottery again.

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  10. #24
    Senior Member NUMBERICA's Avatar
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    I'm warming to Rondo. As long as the Jazz are dedicated to the 3 (otherwise).
    #loseeveryremaininggame

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM View Post
    I knew what you meant, OB. I just wanted to mess with you and point out that these types of things can hardly be formula-applied.
    Noted, and agreed.
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  12. #26
    Senior Member Hotttnickkk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
    I'm not sure to which "alternative notions" you are referring. I agree it's basketball, whether it's being played by the Warriors, Bobcats, Raptors, TrailBlazers, or Pistons. While I don't claim to follow any of those teams closely, my perception has been that they have all been generally following the suggestions of Hotttnickkk for a number of years. So, when you say there is no other data to choose from, I'm curious why you can't choose from data that includes such teams.
    The reason I chose GSW is that I see a lot of similarities between these 2 teams LAST YEAR in terms of the composition of the teams:

    - They both have a similar quality and mix of young players VS Vets as the Jazz
    - (Jefferson/Millsap) VS (Bierdrins/Lee)
    - Thompson VS Burks - they're 11th and 12th pick last year respectively

    If anything you could argue the Jazz has a much MUCH better crop of young players that they can develop (GSW had Curry & Jenkins, but we have Favors, Hayward and Kanter).

    Now at this exact time last year both these teams have a decision to make. Do they compete for the 8th spot? Or do they play their young guys and see where the chips fall (picking up a decent player in a loaded draft along the way). And we know what happened.

    To be honest I'm not looking so much at the wins/loses this year. I'm looking more at how comfortable their young guys are at playing big minutes, and what better time to evaluate that than last night when the 2 teams meet, exactly 1 year from last year's GSW decision to "tank".
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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotttnickkk View Post
    The reason I chose GSW is that I see a lot of similarities between these 2 teams LAST YEAR in terms of the composition of the teams
    So, if the Warriors had the same records as the Raptors right now, you'd still be making this comparison?
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

    Any habitual action, such as eating or dressing, may be performed on the appropriate occasion, without any need of thought, and the same seems to be true of a painfully large proportion of our talk. -- Bertrand Russell

  14. #28
    Senior Member Core4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hack View Post
    I disagree. The Jazz way is the only way to win championships. We have a great GM who has built a beautiful team that will start kicking but any day now. GS is getting lucky. Its impossible to be good after tanking and starting two rookies. The KOC way is the only way.

    Im smart.
    We really haven't seen what this team can do when healthy. Mo has been out a couple of times. Watson just came back. Favors has missed 5 games and struggled with his foot injury. Just wait until everyone gels. Why the Jazz could actually go on a 3-game winning streak in late January when they have 4 straight home games.
    JUST LOSE BABY!

  15. #29
    Senior Member Hotttnickkk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Brow View Post
    So, if the Warriors had the same records as the Raptors right now, you'd still be making this comparison?
    You're assuming Thompson and Jenkins after playing all those minutes last year have not gained any experience at all - which is not realistic.

    Moreover, you're assuming getting Harrison Barnes would not make any impact. Again not a realistic assumption.

    The combination of Thompson's experience, Barnes' contribution (which is foreseeable) contributed to GSW's success this year.

    Don't forget - what GSW has done is EXACTLY what some of us here at JazzFanz have been calling the Jazz to do at exactly this time last year (play young guys to give them experience and see where they fall, and may be pick up a decent player in the process).

    So to answer your question: Even if GSW and Jazz have the same record this year (or even of GSW has a slightly worse record) I'd still think GSW will come out ahead next year. Why? Because when Millsap & Jefferson leaves, we'd still be stucked with an inexperience Kanter/Favors/Burks. While GSW again are playing Thompson, Barnes, Curry, etc big minutes this year.
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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotttnickkk View Post
    You're assuming Thompson and Jenkins after playing all those minutes last year have not gained any experience at all...
    I am not assuming any such thing. I am asking you to explain your assumption that this has been a significant factor for the Warriors this year, when it had not been a facotr in previous years, is not helping the Raptors, etc. I am pointing out that selectiong this years Warriors as your example is cherry-picking.
    http://lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com/

    Isaiah 1:18 -- Come now, and let us reason together

    Any habitual action, such as eating or dressing, may be performed on the appropriate occasion, without any need of thought, and the same seems to be true of a painfully large proportion of our talk. -- Bertrand Russell

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