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  1. #61
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    The argument of whether Ty should have subbed Favors for Al on the last possession, or which guys should have been on the floor down the stretch completely misses the big picture. We squandered a 5 point lead in the last 6 minutes for one simple reason, and it's the same problem we've had all year: We can't run a credible half court offense. The Clippers can. So while Paul takes over (ON Hayward, by the way), we struggle just to get hard shots.

    With a broken offense, you either choose individual scoring (Al/Sap), defense (Favors/Kanter), but it's pick your poison either way.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Sneakers's Avatar
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    You just totally changed what you guys were talking about. It was about who was better vs Griffin and now its about something completely else ?? confusing.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    Not sure how it matters?!?

    We are talking about who was more effective against Blake, right? You got involved in this conversation, right?

    I'm confused.
    He was 7 of 10. So he wasn't struggling to score on ANYBODY. More importantly, he was a non-factor offensively in crunch time when we should have allegedly been using our best defensive weapon against him. The better argument is rebounds, not who was defending him. The bigger point is this whole "Favors shut down Griffin" meme is a Locke myth, not reality.

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  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sneakers View Post
    You just totally changed what you guys were talking about. It was about who was better vs Griffin and now its about something completely else ?? confusing.
    It's the same argument. Griffin accounted for the same points at the same efficiency no matter who was guarding him. And when you account for minutes (he was guarded more by the Al/Sap combo than Favors/Kanter), it's basically an even split.

  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sneakers View Post
    You just totally changed what you guys were talking about. It was about who was better vs Griffin and now its about something completely else ?? confusing.
    Oops, missed your point. I changed the argument slightly to go back to the OP. I'm far less concerned about a final sub or who should have guarded who when the glaring flaw to my mind is the half court offense battle. The Clips have one, we don't, and that's the real tale of the tape in a tight game.

  7. #66
    Senior Member Sneakers's Avatar
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    Griffin accounted for the same points at the same efficiency no matter who was guarding him
    Now I'm not saying you're wrong, but where is the evidence for this claim? And then the fact NAOS brought up - which you said didn't matter - not all of Griffin's points are in one on one situations.. fast breaks, double teams, mismatches - so gauging the respective defensive success of Millsap and Favors against Griffin based entirely on points scored by Griffin while on court at same time is not an honest way to go about this.

  8. #67
    Senior Member Sneakers's Avatar
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    Either way I think its safe to say this is a sideshow discussion from why we lost the game, poor coaching, Jefferson-ball and pretty crummy reffing in general (I am not a blame the ref guy but this game was absurd). I think you're right in that who was on Griffin in the end did not decide the game.

  9. #68
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    Who inside this thread said Favs "shut down" Griffin? This is about effectiveness in THIS game.

    And, yes, it is a sidebar conversation about who was on the floor in crunch time... when, despite our well-documented offensive woes, we still had a chance to beat the league's hottest team.

    Yeah, Locke sucks. This isnt about him.
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  10. #69
    Senior Member jope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slc View Post
    That has always seemed to be Jazz problem even with Malone and Stockton playing.
    They would never seem to have enough scorers on the floor to win the big games when they needed to.
    Corbin may still believe that.
    The great teams always seemed to have a clutch scorer who could win a game at end.
    Jordan, Olajuwon, Bryant, etc.
    Malone and Stockton could be stopped from getting the big basket at times.
    Jazz are still like that.
    I think you're thinking backwards. The problem is that we have never had the personnel to stop a go-to scorer such as those mentioned..

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
    The Clippers can. So while Paul takes over (ON Hayward, by the way), we struggle just to get hard shots.

    With a broken offense, you either choose individual scoring (Al/Sap), defense (Favors/Kanter), but it's pick your poison either way.
    You do realize that Paul was 1/6 in the 4th quarter with the majority of the time having Gordon guarding him right?

  12. #71
    Moderator Revolution 9's Avatar
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    This cost us the game. It was a ticky tack foul that shouldn't been called, but stupid Big Al did enough to get the call. Small Al should have never been in the game.
    Good coaches pull the right strings, and use their talent to the fullest. I just don't don't think Ty will ever be a puppet master.
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  13. #72
    Senior Member Sneakers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    Who inside this thread said Favs "shut down" Griffin? This is about effectiveness in THIS game.

    And, yes, it is a sidebar conversation about who was on the floor in crunch time... when, despite our well-documented offensive woes, we still had a chance to beat the league's hottest team.

    Yeah, Locke sucks. This isnt about him.
    No our debate was Favors and Millsap against Griffin, which didn't matter in the end. Of course Favors over Jefferson matters. Obviously that wasn't what I was saying.
    Long Live JYD

  14. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
    I'm far less concerned about a final sub
    But that was the point of the entire thread: there was one specific sequence where our coach was presented with options. Did you agree with his choice?

  15. #74
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    ...look, billy just realized he's been arguing with Locke the whole time.
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  16. #75
    I Like Warm Hugs Stifle Tower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution 9 View Post
    This cost us the game. It was a ticky tack foul that shouldn't been called, but stupid Big Al did enough to get the call. Small Al should have never been in the game.
    Good coaches pull the right strings, and use their talent to the fullest. I just don't don't think Ty will ever be a puppet master.
    We know we can't be a contender with this lineup. Ty is pulling the strings which will result in a lottery pick. Fire Ty now and the Jazz could be in the same situation as last season: vying for the last playoff spot and a first-round sweep.

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