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  1. #46
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    Trade Big Al/millsap, and we could probably end eight seed. Defense wins championships. Offense gets you laid

  2. #47
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyshelby View Post
    When the bench can run, as it did in Clippers Part I, it looks great. When it can't, like Clippers Part II, it's atrocious. But in neither game could they run competent half court sets. In a few games they've gone on exciting runs mostly with the break and rebounding like Clips, Orlando. But against GS, Miami, Indy, or any team with a semblance of a team defensive concept, they get schooled because they have no post option whatsoever.
    You are right to keep beating this drum.

    It, then, seems reasonable to wish for a less post-centric offense.

    More radically, it seems reasonable to wish that our players would be freed from Corbin's (non)offense.
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    You are right to keep beating this drum.

    It, then, seems reasonable to wish for a less post-centric offense.

    More radically, it seems reasonable to wish that our players would be freed from Corbin's (non)offense.
    With the personnel we have, and especially with Favors/Kanter coming up the pipeline, we're going to remain a post dominant offense. And being post dominant is good, just not the stagnant way we run it.

    Teams that aren't post dominant almost unilaterally have star guards or wings that can create offense or run effective PnR's. We don't have any of those. So in the very short term, we should be heavily post dominant and get other players involved with motion and screens which we rarely do.

    Longer term, we need a genuine star level 1 or 2 to play with Kanter/Favors. That's the missing piece, other than a coach who knows what to do with those pieces.

  4. #49
    Senior Member Cy's Avatar
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    Agreed. Sap and Kanter would be an interesting duo, since they never play together. Our 2nd unit could use some half-court scoring too.
    Pray for White Chocolate, he was born without a brain.

  5. #50
    Senior Member NUMBERICA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IUhoosiers View Post
    Trade Big Al/millsap, and we could probably end eight seed. Defense wins championships. Offense gets you laid
    Awesome.
    "I will say, almost everything. And I didnít bring it every night. But I think most everything was a frustration."

  6. #51
    Moderator Revolution 9's Avatar
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    What we've always known is that Sap and Big Al should never play big minutes together.

    Now we know that Sap is not a huge building block we can build around. Even if he turns it around this year, and he might, he's shown he isn't going to bring it
    for a full season. He wants more thanwhat we offered? No way.

    Move him to the bench, if he thrives offer him the same deal. If he pouts, and want more time/money show him the door.
    you guys are the apostles of awesomeness

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  8. #52
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    This organization likes to define itself as consistent, despite the adversity and diversity of the past few years (we'll say from the time of LHM's passing). There is only one player that can legitimately say he lives up to that model.

    This is Millsap's franchise.

    If the organization wants to take a quantum leap, and there is no place for Paul, then I'd like to see a single sign we are going some place better. One. Anything. I've been waiting at least 1.5 years.
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  9. #53
    Senior Member gregbroncs's Avatar
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    Good god. It was time for this 1.5 years ago.
    Playoffs here we come. Pass the damn Kool-Aid

  10. #54
    Senior Member Darkwing Duck's Avatar
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    You look at Millsap's numbers, and he's basically the same player the last three years. Statistical variation well within standard.

    Under Corbin, his efficiency has diminished while his usage rate remained the same as a starter (half a year under Sloan).

    Millsap is getting more post isolations and less P&R and cut opportunities. Had a man sealed once earlier this year with an easy layup and never got the ball and was quite demonstrative for Millsap.

    I don't think Millsap is the problem. Or at least, he's the least of them.


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  11. #55
    Senior Member Darkwing Duck's Avatar
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    Just took a look. Millsap has played 80% of his minutes with Jefferson this year. Jazz have been much better overall during Millsap's other 20% of minutes played.


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  12. #56
    Senior Member NAOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkwing Duck View Post
    Just took a look. Millsap has played 80% of his minutes with Jefferson this year. Jazz have been much better overall during Millsap's other 20% of minutes played.
    Thanks for the link and copious details.
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  13. #57
    Senior Member Darkwing Duck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAOS View Post
    Thanks for the link and copious details.
    Had to do the calculations myself since there's no direct link. But, I just noticed basketball reference only puts up the 20 most played lineups, so I can only account for 838 minutes and 22 seconds of his 964 minutes played

    In those top 20 played lineups of which Millsap has played 838 minutes and 22 seconds of his 964, 774 minutes and 18 seconds have been played with Jefferson on the floor. The top 12 most played lineups all have Jefferson on the floor with him. Of those 12, 4 have positive points per 100 possessions, and 8 have negative points per 100 possessions. He has two more in the top 20 with Jefferson. One is positive, and one is even. So we'll say 5-8-1. Of the six he hasn't played with Jefferson in the top 20, 5 are positive and 1 is negative, for a 5-1. Of note, the most Millsap has played with a five man roster that didn't include Jefferson was 12 minutes and 47 seconds.

    Curious why you wouldn't take my word for it since I'm not a pull out of ass type of guy.

    Here's the link if you want to have fun looking at net possessions and such.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../lineups/2013/


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  14. #58
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    Probably not the right thread to put this thought in but it's where I was reading when it came to me so here goes. Al has to be traded ASAP (I know it's revolutionary huh). My reasoning is actually not due to games though. We all believe the future of the Jazz are the young guys. Do we really want our young guys practicing with Jefferson? We all have our complaints about Al, well guess what, he's a team leader and mentor if you listen to Harp and Locke. That means he's passing on all his bad habbits that we all love to hate in every practice. So we could all get our wish and the Jazz not re up Al but because he was such a good mentor we get 5 more years of Kanter trying to play like Al.

  15. #59
    Senior Member orangello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by just because View Post
    Probably not the right thread to put this thought in but it's where I was reading when it came to me so here goes. Al has to be traded ASAP (I know it's revolutionary huh). My reasoning is actually not due to games though. We all believe the future of the Jazz are the young guys. Do we really want our young guys practicing with Jefferson? We all have our complaints about Al, well guess what, he's a team leader and mentor if you listen to Harp and Locke. That means he's passing on all his bad habbits that we all love to hate in every practice. So we could all get our wish and the Jazz not re up Al but because he was such a good mentor we get 5 more years of Kanter trying to play like Al.
    My reasoning for trading Al now is because of the upcoming schedule for the Jazz. They a about top embark on the easier portion of the schedule with a lot of home game. Now is a perfect time to get the young guys confidence up by playing in front of the home crowd. It might be extremely beneficial to their development.
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