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Thread: Denouncing God

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    Senior Member akirac73's Avatar
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    Denouncing God

    In the 1,987,423 trade proposals that pop up on this site, why is it that rarely, if ever, Mr. Hayward is mentioned? Do Jazz fans feel he is a cornerstone/untouchable player on the team? I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't think Hayward will ever be elite/All-Star player some Jazz fans think he will become. He's the most overrated player on the Jazz IMO. The guy is equally as inconsistent as previous Jazz-Player Whipping Boys, AK47 and CJ Miles, yet he seems to get a pass. I'm tired of hearing Bolerjack or Harpring say "Hayward had a good game tonight, maybe this is a breakout game for him" then we proceed to watch him stink it up for the next game.

    I hope the Jazz don't shut the door on any trade offers that include Hayward if it could bring us back a legit PG and/or picks.

    That is all.

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    Senior Member dipship31's Avatar
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    The return we'd get on Hayward wouldn't be enough to move him IMO and I think he has all the abilities you want in a swing man. He'll just get more consistent as time goes on. I doubt he'll become an all-star as well, but he should no doubt be a solid rotation player. Also looking ahead let's say we move Gordon how is the wing situation looking for the upcoming seasons? That's putting all our hopes on Burks.

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    He's 22, he still has a high ceiling IMO. Don't forget he didn't have a full training camp last year, with a new coach, and the year before that was his rookie season and he never played until the coaching change happened. Give him time. He seems like the kind of player that would want to stay in Utah, and thats hard to find as well

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    Quote Originally Posted by akirac73 View Post
    In the 1,987,423 trade proposals that pop up on this site, why is it that rarely, if ever, Mr. Hayward is mentioned? Do Jazz fans feel he is a cornerstone/untouchable player on the team? I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't think Hayward will ever be elite/All-Star player some Jazz fans think he will become. He's the most overrated player on the Jazz IMO. The guy is equally as inconsistent as previous Jazz-Player Whipping Boys, AK47 and CJ Miles, yet he seems to get a pass. I'm tired of hearing Bolerjack or Harpring say "Hayward had a good game tonight, maybe this is a breakout game for him" then we proceed to watch him stink it up for the next game.

    I hope the Jazz don't shut the door on any trade offers that include Hayward if it could bring us back a legit PG and/or picks.

    That is all.
    watch him stink it up for the next game? have you taken a look at his game log? here's every game's p/r/a going back to the start of december.

    17/3/0 (12 shots)
    16/5/2 (15 shots)
    17/3/4 (6 shots)
    9/3/3 (10 shots)
    17/0/1 (10 shots)
    15/1/0 (8 shots)
    8/2/1 (6 shots)
    7/4/5 (3 shots)
    11/2/5 (8 shots)
    3/0/1 (5 shots)
    19/7/6 (14 shots)
    14/1/2 (11 shots)
    17/3/3 (10 shots)
    4/5/2 (6 shots)
    17/5/0 (10 shots)
    21/1/2 (12 shots)

    a grand total of 3 games where he didn't produce at least a point per shot, and remarkable consistency. there are two absolute clunker games in that whole batch. 1.44 pps overall which is unreal for a month's worth of high-minute play. not sure where you get the idea that he "stinks it up" every other game.

    that said, he shouldn't be untouchable -- but the price should be higher for him than for 90% of our roster.
    check out the jazzbros.com blog for more on the jazz.

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    Senior Member Cyrone Torbin's Avatar
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    None of the rookies/young players ever get mentioned in trades, not just Hayward.
    'Merican League Consensus (kind of) PWR RANKS

    12) Goose

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    Senior Member Hack's Avatar
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    I like the guy mostly because of his defense. Its hard to find guys that can play defense like him. Its actually quite amazing how good of a defender he is. There is two sides to the court ya know. Too often the defensive side is ignored.

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    Senior Member dipship31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theNBAnerd View Post
    1.44 pps overall which is unreal for a month's worth of high-minute play. not sure where you get the idea that he "stinks it up" every other game.
    That's a very nice stat on Hayward. For comparison's sake Jefferson has had 6 games during that span where he's scored less points than shot attempts. Our guards should be doing that more often than our bigs..... Here are some Points Per Shot rankings:

    Kanter: 59th 1.33
    Millsap: 67th 1.32
    Hayward: 70th 1.32
    Favors: 99th 1.27
    Al: 250th 1.12

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    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akirac73 View Post
    The guy is equally as inconsistent as previous Jazz-Player Whipping Boys, AK47 and CJ Miles
    Gordo's already much better than CJ ever was or will be, and he's not being paid $17mm like AK. He's 22, and above average among NBA wing players on both O and D. Is he a star? No, but he's a good piece.
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

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    Senior Member GVC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dipship31 View Post
    That's a very nice stat
    Points per shot is a terrible metric; there are far better stats out there (TS%, PPP from mysynergy). Nerd knows this, but uses this stat when it supports his arguments. A complete lack of intellectual integrity.
    http://jazzfanz.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=133&dateline=1317382587

  11. #10
    Senior Member mellow's Avatar
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    Hayward just demanded a trade to Phoenix

    Gordon Hayward @gordonhayward
    Just landed in Phoenix man it feels good here
    My2cents-- I am dissappointed in Hayward when I see him standing around watching, it is not all the time but it happens. I notice it most on rebounds, loose balls, and the first few moments of transition. He is not the only Jazz guy to do it, and I don't know why it bugs me when he does it versus seeing Al standing there dripping on the floor.

    Jerry would have said that Hayward plays like he's got a tuxedo on. I wish Hayward would play like he was wearing his slopping hog clothes on, or his Friday night, strut his stuff for the ladies and fight some dude 'cause he looked at you wrong clothes.
    Last edited by mellow; 01-03-2013 at 06:32 PM.
    The book I want to write: From Showtime to spreadsheet - How analytics killed the NBA.

  12. #11
    Senior Member mct's Avatar
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    Yeah point per shot sucks. Free throws and TOs use possessions as well.

    I don't want to trade Hayward though.

  13. #12
    Senior Member cctrackstar's Avatar
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    Hayward is the ultimate team player, he does a lot more than score and I'm not talking about rebounds and assists, even though he does that too. He is a complete player who is fast enough and athletic enough to hold his own. Not all keeper players are stars, some of them are solid bench guys who help the team win, and if he just gets a bit more consistent than I can see him being essential to the team going forward.

    Besides, his trade value probably isn't too high for the same reasons that he was booed on draft day. He isn't looked at as a big name player.

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    Senior Member Cyrone Torbin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cctrackstar View Post
    Hayward is the ultimate team player, he does a lot more than score and I'm not talking about rebounds and assists, even though he does that too. He is a complete player who is fast enough and athletic enough to hold his own. Not all keeper players are stars, some of them are solid bench guys who help the team win, and if he just gets a bit more consistent than I can see him being essential to the team going forward.

    Besides, his trade value probably isn't too high for the same reasons that he was booed on draft day. He isn't looked at as a big name player.
    Hayward doesn't rebound....
    'Merican League Consensus (kind of) PWR RANKS

    12) Goose

  15. #14
    Senior Member cctrackstar's Avatar
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    Hayward doesn't rebound....
    Touche... Wondered about that, but didn't want to look it up. Oh well, he's a swingmen, he doesn't have to rebound on a regular basis.

  16. #15
    Oballin' BabyPeterzz's Avatar
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    Comparing Hayward to CJ is just stupid. Just try to think back to watching CJ chuck (I know, it hurts). Hayward is nothing like CJ, at all.

    That said, I wish we had picked Paul George. Who knew he would grow and become an all-star in just 3 years.
    Freckle Liiiiiip.

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